Women...and men speak up. 9mm questions. HK/SIG /Glock - Page 2

Women...and men speak up. 9mm questions. HK/SIG /Glock

This is a discussion on Women...and men speak up. 9mm questions. HK/SIG /Glock within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If her hands are truly itty-bitty as you say, she may not like the short Glock grip. It didn't work well for me, while the ...

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Thread: Women...and men speak up. 9mm questions. HK/SIG /Glock

  1. #16
    Member Array imatt's Avatar
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    If her hands are truly itty-bitty as you say, she may not like the short Glock grip. It didn't work well for me, while the full-length (G21) grip did. I suggest have her try a S&W M&P 9c. It has replaceable backstraps, and the small one might fit her hand.



  2. #17
    Member Array sixball's Avatar
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    P239 you will love it.
    Tell your dealer to order two and get consecutive serial numbers.
    The Kahr PM9 is also a outstanding Little gun but have her look at it first. It can be a bit stiff

  3. #18
    pax
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    Senior Member Array pax's Avatar
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    Educate her and let her do the choosing. Seriously...

    To be clear: I'm absolutely not criticizing you for wanting to narrow the options for her, so please don't think I am. I'm simply saying that there are aspects of shopping for a defense gun that only the person using the gun can effectively evaluate. And since this will be a first gun, there's a certain develop-the-mindset advantage to putting her into the driver's seat.

    1) Start with discussing gun fit. See Cornered Cat - Trying on a Gun for a pictorial about how to check a gun for fit. This is something she has to check for herself. You can't check it for her, although you might help her assess near calls. Remember the gun doesn't have to fit perfectly, but the closer the fit, the easier it will be for her to hit well with that gun under stress.

    2) Emphasize that she has to be able to reach and use all the gun's controls. This is something she can check for herself in the shop. Again, you can't assess this for her. She's the only one who can do it.

    3) Get her a good mindset book or two. I'd suggest Gila Hayes' Effective Defense as a good starting point, which is full of practical advice about gun shopping as well as being a great jumping-off place for developing a solid mindset about concealed carry.

    4) Help her learn about the different trigger types and discuss the trade offs between long triggers vs short triggers, heavy triggers vs light triggers based on how the triggers feel to her as she is shopping. Note that long, heavy triggers are somewhat more difficult to shoot accurately; the skill can obviously be learned but will require more practice. Similarly, and in the same context (eg, in the shop) discuss with her the difference between various action types and how the action type affects the feel of the trigger.

    5) Also while shopping, talk about the differences between a grip safety, thumb safety, trigger safety, decocking lever, and so on -- how these devices are designed to work, what their various advantages are, what their various disadvantages are. Discuss all this in context with selecting the ideal balance between speed/ease of use (which translates to safety from a BG) vs avoiding NDs (which translates to safety from herself), so that she understands that "more levers" doesn't necessarily mean "more safe" on a defensive firearm -- that it all boils down to trade offs and finding a good balance for herself.

    So the bottom line is this: help her understand the choices she is making as she looks at various guns. Once she's got a short list of guns that fit her hand well and for which she can reach the controls, with triggers and action types that suit her, the final selection on the range will be a lot more hit and a lot less miss.

    pax
    Kathy Jackson
    My website: Cornered Cat

  4. #19
    Senior Member Array Jackle1886's Avatar
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    Kahr all the way.
    Better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees.

  5. #20
    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
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    Cool

    +1
    on the Sig P239 and the Kahr MK9.

    For a lighter pistol, I suggest you both take a look at the Walther P99 and the HK P2000SK.


    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -Thomas Jefferson

    "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder." -Michael Savage

    GOOD Gun Control is being able to hit your target! -Myself

  6. #21
    Member Array thebees's Avatar
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    1st Pistol

    I usually recommend a G-19 for a beginner though they are pretty good for an experienced shooter also. I've been carrying one since I got my permit when they were first available.
    In my opinion the Glock only has one serious negative factor. That's the thickness.
    I have a Kahr CW-9 also now and it is light and thin. I do carry spare mag and didn't with the Glock. But I love the thin light CW-9.
    I don't like DA/SA guns period. Must be SA or DAO. The Sig 239 with the DAK is great. Only draw back to it it the price.
    If the price isn't too steep, the 9mm 239 Dak would be great and you might not ever need another handgun.
    Although every one should have a Browning Hi-Power.
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  7. #22
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    My SO uses a P239SAS (whith the DAK), and is a whiz with the thing. She really, really, REALLY likes it... Heck, I really like it, too - it is about as fine a pistol as exists in its category.

    If your girl is comfortable with the DA/SA option, and you don't really need the melt job of the SAS, then a standard P239 should do fine.

    Any of your choices are good, reliable guns - it will come down to what she can shoot, manipulate, and carry (and will carry...)
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  8. #23
    Member Array andersmg's Avatar
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    I did not take the time to read thru all the posts, so this may have already been suggested, if not here goes.

    See if you can find a kahr CW9, I have the CW40 and really like it. If you can find one to shoot that would be even better for her, but the grip is narrow like on the PM9 you mentioned but it is longer.

  9. #24
    Member Array JG01's Avatar
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    I recomment you try the sig 239 with Hogue grips.

  10. #25
    Member Array TonyB's Avatar
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    I am w/ imatt.Have her try an m and p w/ the small backstrap.I have smallish hands too and it fits me way better than my g17 ever did.and it is still big enough to not be too punishing to shoot.The Kahrs are great,but no offense,if she's small,the recoil may be a little much,therefore she won't like to practice w/ it as much.
    but of course pax is right,let her choose,but I'd put the m and p in the running.
    "Just because I'm paranoid,doesn't mean they're NOT after me...."

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Make sure whatever she picks she will not only be comfortable shooting but will have no problem carrying and concealing,there is nothing worse IMHO than buying a cc gun and getting a permit to carry,but leaving the gun at home or in the car because it is too heavy or uncomfortable to carry.When my wife joins me and can legally carry after getting her green card then I would let her try several guns including all the afore mentioned
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  12. #27
    Member Array dmorris68's Avatar
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    I agree the CW9 is a great pistol for the money, in fact it's arguably the BEST compact 9mm in its price range. However they're notorious for their slide (recoil spring) stiffness. Some women (and men) may have trouble with it, especially as a first pistol or if they have not yet developed the proper technique for racking slides.

    I sold my CW9 this morning because my wife can't reliably operate it due to a medical condition that affects her hand strength & pain level, and will use the proceeds to get something that's easier for her to handle. OTOH, the co-worker to whom I sold it, took it home last night for his wife to "try on," and he said she fell in love with it after handling it just fine. So it just depends on the person, their strength level, and experience.

    It's easy for men trying to pick out guns for women to forget the little details like this. That's why it's so important, when possible, to get her to a range/store where she can handle a selection before deciding on what SHE likes. Of course, from personal experience, I know that isn't always feasible, so we have to try to keep these sorts of issues in mind.
    David

    Kimber Pro CDP II Colt Combat Commander Glock 26 GNS Ruger Mark III 22/45 Kahr CW9 (sold)

  13. #28
    Member Array alnitak's Avatar
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    There's a lot of good advice in these post...most especially having her try various models and find the one that fits her best and that she shoots well.

    Having said that, my bias is the Kahr CW9 or P9. The grip is slim, so should fit her hand well. It doesn't have all the safety levers, etc. so there is less for a first-time user to remember, especially in a life-and-death situation, and is very slim, making it easy to carry all the time. It also is easier to control than the PM9 (which can be a little snappy for inexperienced shooters). I don't see racking the slide as an issue, since one should always use the slide release on Kahrs rather than manually racking the slide...no strength required for that.

    Bottom line, there are many fine choices out there -- Glock (bulky grip though), SIG, S&W M&Pc, Walther PPS, XDsc, etc. Good luck in your hunt.

  14. #29
    Member Array dmorris68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alnitak View Post
    I don't see racking the slide as an issue, since one should always use the slide release on Kahrs rather than manually racking the slide...no strength required for that.
    I hear this argument sometimes, and I respectfully but vehemently disagree.

    First, how do you get it to slide lock in the first place? Obviously after running dry, but before that? Some argue that they chamber the first round for the wife and then depend on slide lock after running dry for reloads. Very bad idea IMO, and here's just a couple of reasons:
    • If the gun malfunctions and you aren't close at hand to help. Especially in a SHTF scenario, I want her to be able to reliably clear the weapon and reload herself manually, and quickly. One can argue that under such a stressful encounter, lack of strength won't be a problem, and they'd likely be correct. However lack of technique could very much be a problem, since they wouldn't have been practicing it.
    • There are times where clearing and reloading a weapon are necessary, and I might not always be nearby to help.

    Bottom line, I wouldn't want to trust my life or the life of a loved one to a weapon that could not be fully operated proficiently and without assistance. Even if it means that she must "revert" to a wheel gun, so be it. Just my $0.02...
    David

    Kimber Pro CDP II Colt Combat Commander Glock 26 GNS Ruger Mark III 22/45 Kahr CW9 (sold)

  15. #30
    Member Array alnitak's Avatar
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    In the spirit of discussion, not disagreement, I don't see the initial locking the slide back to load as an issue. The technique of palm over slide allows her to exert a lot more strength to lock back the slide, rather than pulling from the rear just using her fingers (aka, the slingshot method). Then, she just uses the slide release once the mag is in.

    You make some good points in the case of having to clear a jam or other tactical situations. However, I would expect her use of the gun only in those situations where she is immediately threatened, and by a close target -- a target that will probably close on her before she can clear and then reload anyway. Lastly, given that many have issues with FTFs even by a manly slingshot, it seems a risk anyway.

    Good discussion, and good points you raise. I will work on my clears and slingshots more, just to be prepared!

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