.380 on Guns and Ammo TV - Page 3

.380 on Guns and Ammo TV

This is a discussion on .380 on Guns and Ammo TV within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; aren't the feds the ones who gave up on the 10mm and helped create the .40? I find flaw in the report that they would ...

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Thread: .380 on Guns and Ammo TV

  1. #31
    Member Array chaosrob's Avatar
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    aren't the feds the ones who gave up on the 10mm and helped create the .40? I find flaw in the report that they would do such a thing if the ballistics are that important to th various fed agencies as the 10mm is far superior in all ballistic departments to the .40 imho


  2. #32
    Senior Member Array High Altitude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaosrob View Post
    aren't the feds the ones who gave up on the 10mm and helped create the .40? I find flaw in the report that they would do such a thing if the ballistics are that important to th various fed agencies as the 10mm is far superior in all ballistic departments to the .40 imho
    It was too powerful of a round to be used effeciently. (fast, accurate follow up shots etc......)

  3. #33
    Senior Member Array HowardCohodas's Avatar
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    Hornady Critical Defense Ammunition 380 - Availability and Price



    Perhaps Hornady's new Critical Defense Ammo might cause many of us to reevaluate our concern about the adequacy of the 380 round.

    Product Spec Sheet: http://www.hornady.com/images/sell_s...al_defense.pdf

    Guns & Ammo article: Critical Defense

    The first listing for distribution in the retail channel that I've found is MidwayUSA.

    Price: $18.49 for 25

    MidwayUSA - Hornady Critical Defense Ammunition 380 ACP 90 Grain Flex Tip Expanding Box of 25
    Howard
    I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop!!
    Politically Incorrect Self Defense

  4. #34
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    The feds criteria for ballistics isn't what they are determining their carry loads from.

    They are looking at expansion, clogging in clothing, jackets that stay together through hard targets and more importantly penetration results with the above included.

    Brownie
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

  5. #35
    Member Array NavDoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaosrob View Post
    aren't the feds the ones who gave up on the 10mm and helped create the .40? I find flaw in the report that they would do such a thing if the ballistics are that important to th various fed agencies as the 10mm is far superior in all ballistic departments to the .40 imho

    Savannah Georgia Police gave up the 10 mm for the 40 S&W. Stated that the 10 mm had too much collateral damage.

    Also, I am hearing good things about the CorBon DPX 40 S&W round. I do understand that if you ask 100 folks what they prefer, you will get 100 different answers. I will give the Critical Defense a try.

  6. #36
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    45acp results of several loads showed the following for this load:

    Corbon DPX 160gr. Barnes X


    Veloc:High:1249/Avg:1207 for the 5" gov model and High:1071 /Avg:1029 for the 4" barreled 1911.

    Pene:15 inches for the 5" gov model and 16.1 inches for the 4" barreled 1911.

    Expan: Max:0.6465/Avg:0.646 for the 5" gov model for 42.9 % increase in expansion and High:0.646/Avg:0.637 for the 4" barreled 1911.

    Too much penetration and not enough expansion with this loading for consideration on the street. The best 45acp loads tested expanded 102% with 13.5 inches of penetration [ the HST2 230 grain loading ]

    I wouldn't listen to the hype of the Corbon loads myself.

    Brownie
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

  7. #37
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    45acp results of several loads showed the following for this load:

    Corbon DPX 160gr. Barnes X


    Veloc:High:1249/Avg:1207 for the 5" gov model and High:1071 /Avg:1029 for the 4" barreled 1911.

    Pene:15 inches for the 5" gov model and 16.1 inches for the 4" barreled 1911.

    Expan: Max:0.6465/Avg:0.646 for the 5" gov model for 42.9 % increase in expansion and High:0.646/Avg:0.637 for the 4" barreled 1911.

    Too much penetration and not enough expansion with this loading for consideration on the street. The best 45acp loads tested expanded 102% with 13.5 inches of penetration [ the HST2 230 grain loading ]

    I wouldn't listen to the hype of the Corbon loads myself.

    Brownie
    That's what I use for my .45acp load. federal P45HST2
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
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  8. #38
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    Best penetration from 230 grain bullets from deepest to shallowest 5" barrel:

    Federal Hydra Shok 230gr. Pene:14 1/2 inches Not tested in 4 inch.

    Golden Sabre Pene: 13 1/2 inches 14 inches

    Speer Gold Dot 230gr. Pene: 13 inches / 14 1/2 inches

    Win. White Box 230 gr. Hollow Point Pene:13 1/4 inches 14 1/2 inches

    Federal Tactical Bonded 230gr.+P Pene:12 1/2 inches 14 inches

    Federal HST1 230gr.+P Pene: 12 inches/ 13 1/2 inches

    ranger 230 grain Pene: 12 inches 12 1/4 inches
    Federal HST2 230gr. Pene: 12 inches/ 12 1/4 inches


    Best penetration from 4" barrel

    Speer Gold Dot 230gr. Pene: 13 inches / 14 1/2 inches

    Win. White Box 230 gr. Hollow Point Pene:13 1/4 inches 14 1/2 inches

    Rem.Golden Sabre 230gr. Pene: 13 1/2 inches 14 inches

    Federal Tactical Bonded 230gr.+P Pene:12 1/2 inches 14 inches

    Federal HST1 230gr.+P Pene: 12 inches/ 13 1/2 inches

    Federal HST2 230gr. Pene: 12 inches/ 12 1/4 inches

    Win. RA45T Ranger 230gr. Pene: 12 inches 12 1/4 inches

    Federal Hydra Shok 230gr. Pene:14 1/2 inches Not tested in 4 inch.


    Most expansion from 230 grain bullets from the 5" barrel:

    Federal HST2 230gr. Expan:Max: 1.036/Avg:0.9785/ Max:0.882/Avg:0.859

    Win. RA45T Ranger 230gr. Expan: Max:0.994/Avg:0.8975 Max: 0.969/Avg:0.896

    Federal HST1 230gr.+P Expan:0.878/Avg:0.843/ Max:0.845/Avg:0.835

    Federal Hydra Shok 230gr. Expan: High: 0.779/Avg:0.770

    Federal Tac Bonded 230gr.+P Expan:Max:0.734?Avg:0.7162/ Max:0.702/Avg:0.696

    WWB Expan: Max: 0.733/Avg:0.724 Max:0.703/Avg:0.6935

    Speer Gold Dot 230gr. Expan:Max:0.728/Avg:0.713 Max:0.696/Avg:0/690

    Rem.Golden Sabre 230gr. Expan: Max:0.721/Avg:0.7085 Max:0.673 /Avg.0.667


    Most expansion from the 4" barrel:

    Win. RA45T Ranger 230gr. Expan: Max:0.994/Avg:0.8975 Max: 0.969/Avg:0.896

    Federal HST2 230gr Expan:Max: 1.036/Avg:0.9785/ Max:0.882/Avg:0.859

    Federal HST1 230gr.+P Expan:0.878/Avg:0.843/ Max:0.845/Avg:0.835

    Federal Tac Bonded 230gr.+P Expan:Max:0.734?Avg:0.7162/ Max:0.702/Avg:0.696

    WWB 230 gr. Hollow Point Expan: Max: 0.733/Avg:0.724 Max:0.703/Avg:0.6935

    Speer Gold Dot 230gr. Expan:Max:0.728/Avg:0.713 Max:0.696/Avg:0/690

    Rem.Golden Sabre 230gr. Expan: Max:0.721/Avg:0.7085 Max:0.673 /Avg.0.667

    Federal Hydra Shok 230gr.-----not tested


    185 grain best penetration:

    Hornady XTP 185gr Pene:16+inches 16+ inches

    Rem.Golden Sabre 185gr.+P Pene: 15 inches 16 1/2 inches

    Taurus Hex 185gr. Barnes X Pene: 9 3/4 inches/ 10 1/2 inches


    160-165 grain best penetration:

    Corbon DPX 160gr. Barnes X Pene:15 inches! 16.1 inches.

    Federal Hydra Shok 165gr. Pene:12 inches 12 1/4 inches

    Double Tap 165gr.HP Pene:9 3/4 inches/ 10 inches


    Best expansion from 185 grain loads 5" barrel:

    Taurus Hex 185gr. Barnes X Expan:Max: 0.861/Avg:0.857/ Max:0.851/Avg:0.799

    Rem.Golden Sabre 185gr.+P Expan: Max:0.729 /Avg:0.7045 Max:0.707/Avg:0.696

    Hornady XTP 185gr Expan:Max:0.579/Avg:0.549 Max:0.510/Avg:0.506


    Best expansion from 185 grain loads 4" barrel:

    Taurus Hex 185gr. Barnes X Expan:Max: 0.861/Avg:0.857/ Max:0.851/Avg:0.799

    Rem.Golden Sabre 185gr.+P Expan: Max:0.729 /Avg:0.7045 Max:0.707/Avg:0.696

    Hornady XTP 185gr Expan:Max:0.579/Avg:0.549 Max:0.510/Avg:0.506

    Brownie
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    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

  9. #39
    Member Array kitsapcharly's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Take a look at Double Tap listings for both the 380 and 45. Both come in your choice of FMJ or HP. The 380 gives 200 pounds of pressure at the muzzle from a little Kel-Tec barrel. The 45 will give 520 pounds from a 5" barrel.
    These are NOT +P loads. All within SAAMI specs. Low flash powders. Neither one seemed to make any real serious difference in recoil to me.
    These are the carry loads in Kel-Tecs and XD-45c.

    Highly recommended! Take a look at their web site or Midway.

  10. #40
    VIP Member Array artz's Avatar
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    Buffalo Bore ammo quotes 280 FT.LBs. from their 100gr. Hard-Cast FN bullet.
    They also have a 90 gr. Speer Gold Dot JHC with about 25 ft.lbs less.
    Product Line Listing

    Anyone try these ?
    " Refuse to be a victim, make sure there is a round chambered ! "

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  11. #41
    Member Array ouch's Avatar
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    My EDC is a LCP, I trust that it will do its job if it arises, yes Id rather wear a .45 but the LCP works better for me so far.

  12. #42
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    Buffalo Bore ammo quotes 280 FT.LBs. from their 100gr. Hard-Cast FN bullet.
    They also have a 90 gr. Speer Gold Dot JHC with about 25 ft.lbs less.
    Product Line Listing

    Anyone try these ?


    I load the following in my Walther ppk/s from Buffalo Bore:

    Item 27C/20 is a 90gr. Speer Gold Dot
    Walther PPK-3.5 inch barrel-----1200 fps

    It delivers roughly 270 foot pounds of energy from the Walther and expands to about .55 caliber for a 44% increase in diameter. It's a bonded core bullet and the jacket will not seperate thereby retaining it's weight. Gets 10 inches of penetration in testing.

    As I mentioned above, the Corbon dpx doesn't expand enough and consequently has too much penetration. It acts like a ball loading for the most part.

    Brownie
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

  13. #43
    Member Array Snakedriver's Avatar
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    Cool CCW in Florida

    In S. Florida where it's perpetually summer, we don't often have the occasion to where coats and such that will cover-up carrying a Dirty Harry hog-leg. While not ideal, the .380 acp guns are perfect for our needs and pack enough punch to get the job done. My wife carries a Model 84BB Beretta Cheetah in her purse that has 13+1 Federal 90 gr. .380Hydra-Shoks on board. She's been taught to neve fire less that three (3) shots at COM and to keep shooting until the attack ceases or the gun goes click. The Ruger LCP I carry is perfect for me because it fits into any pocket available. I especially like it in the side pocket of my cargo shorts. AT 15.4 ounces loaded I hardly even know it's there. It's also loaded with the Federal Hydra-Shoks. The LCP has a rather harsh recoil but is perfect for what it's intended to be. Do a couple of phone book tests with the new .380 ammo and say a 9mm. I think you'll see that they have enough punch to get the job done.
    Fear is a reaction.......
    Courage is a decision.

    FOR GOD, FOR COUNTRY AND FOR BLUE MAX

    Blue Max 24, U.S. Army, RVN 1972

  14. #44
    Member Array kitsapcharly's Avatar
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    The buffalo Bore rounds mentioned above by Artz and ArQkr look very interesting in their listings. Follow the link shown by Artz.
    Anybody out there ever try this stuff in a Kel-tec P-3AT? Notice they give it as +P instead of SAAMI spec pressure like the Double Tap.
    The velocity listed from the Kel-Tec barrel works out to 241 pounds at the muzzle which is a lot. This is with the heaviest bullet listed of three weights.
    As appealing as this is from the standpoint of horsepower the +P worries me. These are very lightly built guns weighing about 11 ounces fully loaded and either 8 or 9 ounces empty(2nd generation added 1 ounce over the first.) They won't blow up but the heavy pounding might cause failure in some little part or at least it would worry me.
    In a larger and more robust design like the Bersa models the Buffalo Bore would perhaps be the best for SD but in the little Kel-Tec I think for now at least that I'll stick to the Double Tap. 200 isn't bad and the extra 20% in power seems like it might be pushing the envelop too much in the tiny gun. Sort of like a low-buck racing team trying to add nitro to the fuel for some quick speed...whoops!
    Still, anybody try this?

  15. #45
    Member Array Snakedriver's Avatar
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    Thumbs up This is some good stuff!!!

    I liked the looks of this stuff so much that I ordered a couple of boxes from Midway today for our .380's. It should perform especially well in our LCP. Hornaday has always made some very good products.

    Quote Originally Posted by HowardCohodas View Post


    Perhaps Hornady's new Critical Defense Ammo might cause many of us to reevaluate our concern about the adequacy of the 380 round.

    Product Spec Sheet: http://www.hornady.com/images/sell_s...al_defense.pdf

    Guns & Ammo article: Critical Defense

    The first listing for distribution in the retail channel that I've found is MidwayUSA.

    Price: $18.49 for 25

    MidwayUSA - Hornady Critical Defense Ammunition 380 ACP 90 Grain Flex Tip Expanding Box of 25
    Fear is a reaction.......
    Courage is a decision.

    FOR GOD, FOR COUNTRY AND FOR BLUE MAX

    Blue Max 24, U.S. Army, RVN 1972

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