.380 on Guns and Ammo TV

This is a discussion on .380 on Guns and Ammo TV within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Buffalo Bore shows they've tested their 380 ammo I'm using in the following guns: 1. BDA-3.75 inch barrel----1218 fps 2. Walther PPK-3.5 inch barrel-----1200 fps ...

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Thread: .380 on Guns and Ammo TV

  1. #46
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    Buffalo Bore shows they've tested their 380 ammo I'm using in the following guns:


    1. BDA-3.75 inch barrel----1218 fps
    2. Walther PPK-3.5 inch barrel-----1200 fps
    3. Colt Mustang Pocket Lite-2.75 inch barrel---1123 fps
    4. Keltec---1100 fps

    They've chronographed all their loads in their personally owned Kel-tec's and the others listed, and though I wouldn't recommend using it on a regular basis, I'm sure Buffalo Bore didn't have a problem with the guns in their testing to list those guns specifically on the site.

    Shoot 2-3 mags to make sure it works in your gun, clean it and reload it with the same rounds. Practice with standard velocity ammo and save the good stuff for the BG's

    The critical defense 380 lists the same bullet weight at 100fps slower than the BB load. Thats just 10% less velocity and I'm quite sure the Kel-tecs are well within safety standards and are capable of handling the 10% over standard velocity ammo.

    The double tap will act almost like ball ammo with very little expansion, not worth the effort to use it as a HP when there are loads out there that dig deep and expand reliably at the same time.

    BB's 100 grain lead bullet will do the same thing as the double tap and expand at least as much if it hits a bone. It doesn't suffer from potential plugging on clothing either.

    Brownie
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  3. #47
    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    .380 is the lowest i'd go on the caliber ladder. i carry a .380, as a backup to my 9mm or .45ACP.

  4. #48
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    When I started getting arthritis in my right (strong) hand, I looked at the .380. The one I tried kicked more than my Glock; I was told it was because it was a "blowback"; the weight was probably a factor too.
    Note: It is not the recoil that's painful, it is the upward motion of the muzzle.
    So I kept the G-26 and got a ported barrel: big diffeence in muzzle flip and all the problems I was cautioned about, upward flash in low light, risk of getting injured by debris flying back, lower performance didn't happen.
    I'll post a picture as soon as I can.
    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
    The second rule: "Bring enough gun"

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  5. #49
    Member Array libertarian5's Avatar
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    I carry the 100 gr Buffalo Bore in my Mustang. I practice with cheaper stuff, but always shoot a few of the BB's to make sure I'm hitting the same spot. I have done some testing with wet phone books and the BB penetrates at least as well as a standard .38 load from my snubby Python. That's where it ends, though - .38 +P loads penetrate about an inch further and the .357's just keep on going.
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  6. #50
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    libertarian5,

    When I can get 60% more rounds on tap [ 8 in the ppk/s ] over a 5 shot j frame that's easier to conceal and reload on the move, with the same performance, I'll take that advantage all day long.

    Thanks for the report on the loads performance. My ppk/s should give just a little better results than your mustang due to the longer barrel length as well.

    Brownie
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

  7. #51
    Member Array Rusty Bouquett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dthowell View Post
    a .22 will kill someone every-time if you shoot in the right spot. I carry a .380 as a backup and my wife carries a .380. with the right bullet it will do the same job as my .357. just a little less intimidating.
    About the hottest load I'm aware of for the 380 ACP is the Hornady (I believe) 100 gr. LSWCFP that launches at 1100 fps. Typical ballistics for the 380 is an 80 gr. bullet at 925 fps. The 125 gr. JHP launches from the 357 mag. upwards of 1400 fps. There's no way on earth the "right bullet" is going to make up the difference. However, remember that way back when Wild Bill Hickock killed 5 men in two years using the 1851 Colt Navy cap and ball black powder revolver. The ballistics? An 80 gr. bullet at 900 FPS!! Keep in mind that old Bill was an absolute dead-eye shot. Even then a lot could be said for shot placement. Just the same, I'd prefer the 357 mag!

  8. #52
    Member Array Rusty Bouquett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Small calibers used to work better because people were smaller. Have you seen any of the corn (genetically engineered) and beef (hormone saturated)fed farmboys these days. My coworkers son is 15 and is 6 ft 3 in tall and goes 230. A mid twenties version of this kid will be about 6' 5" 290. Try stopping him with a little tiny round. I know, I know, shot placement, but I feel a whole lot better with my 158 grain hydrashocks!
    And if he's loaded to the gills on meth, pcp, heroine (or some combination of the three) with a few shots of JD thrown in for kicks and grins? I want my 44 mag!!

  9. #53
    VIP Member Array semperfi.45's Avatar
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    For pete's sake the caliber war goes on. Carry what you're comfortable with and know your/it's limitations. I don't prefer .380 but that doesn't mean I want to get shot with it.

    Opinions aside let's just agree, carry a gun.
    Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.

  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ouch View Post
    My EDC is a LCP, I trust that it will do its job if it arises, yes Id rather wear a .45 but the LCP works better for me so far.
    Ouch,

    With all due respect, unless you've successfully survived a gunfight that you haven't mentioned, the LCP hasn't 'worked' for you at all, it's simply been something you've been carrying without a negative incident. You have no idea what would happen if you ever had to use the thing. Your statement is a non sequitur, as there is nothing to back up the statement.

    I decided a long time ago, after reading about the number of times people have been shot multiple times with smaller caliber rounds in the torso and died, but not until they'd inflicted great harm or a mortal wound on the person that had shot them, and talking to several people who had been shot with 9mm's and walked away from it, that the only acceptable way to defend oneself with a smaller caliber handgun is with a head shot. Given the difficulty of doing that with small guns with poor sights and a short sight radius, even for those who practice a lot (which isn't your average shooter), the only safe way to carry a smaller caliber weapon for self defense is with a laser attached to it to greatly improve the shooter's ability (with practice!!) to make a successful head shot. But that's just my opinion... but I'm a lot more likely to stake my life on that than on hoping that I'm lucky...

    Oh, and as for the need for a certain level of penetration into gelatin that the FBI requires, it has a lot to do with the fact that there are no bones or denser tissue in gelatin which would limit penetration (or cause a ricochet inside the body, again potentially limiting penetration), so 14" into gelatin could easily be 10" or much less into a human body... And 10" could easily turn into 5" or just a graze if it slid off and around a rib...

    It is constantly amazing to me how the anti-gun people cannot see the illogic behind their position, and then I get on the gun boards and listen to people use illogical justifications to support their poor choices in self protection weapons and wonder if the average CCW isn't just as emotional and illogical as the average anti-gunner...

    More accurate is better, and Bigger is better, so logically, more accurate AND bigger is even better... Yes, a hit with a 22 IN THE RIGHT PLACE is far better than a miss with something bigger, but a hit with a 22 in anything but a few very choice locations is worse than a miss with anything, cause it's just gonna piss them off, once they notice it... And you better have a laser, a lot of ammo, and a lot of practice... and maybe some luck thrown in, if you want to hit that person shooting at you 'in the right place' with a 22 in a gunfight... with enough adrenalin pumping through you to make a seasoned cop miss and to turn your 'fine motor skills' into 'fine motor slop'...

    Stoney
    {It is NOT always better to have a gun if the gun is totally inadequate and you think it is adequate, as it gives you the false courage to make you do things that are likely to get you killed... Only those who know what their weapon is capable of in their hands during the stress of a gunfight should carry a gun... though we certainly all have the right to per the 2nd Amendment, I learned a long time ago that just cause I could do something wasn't always a good reason to do it.}

  11. #55
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    Saw guy shot with a 25 auto once and died within a minute from loss of blood.

    Saw a cop shot in Boston with a 45acp ball round in the chest, it exited his right calf and he lived.

    Worked with a cop who shot himself in the thigh while sitting in a kitchen chair cleaning his gun, hitting the femoral and the rd exited his calf, blowing it up pretty good. He lived as well.

    380's were used in Europe for years and BG's died quite often for decades.

    It's the luck of the draw, not to be relied upon like "bigger is better". Bigger isn't always better, all things being equal as some suggest.

    San Jose PD used the Ranger T 147 loading and the first 6 perps they shot on the streets only required one rd and they were DRT as well. Never ceases to amaze me that so many put so much faith in "bigger is better".

    Brownie
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  12. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Saw guy shot with a 25 auto once and died within a minute from loss of blood.

    Saw a cop shot in Boston with a 45acp ball round in the chest, it exited his right calf and he lived.

    Worked with a cop who shot himself in the thigh while sitting in a kitchen chair cleaning his gun, hitting the femoral and the rd exited his calf, blowing it up pretty good. He lived as well.

    380's were used in Europe for years and BG's died quite often for decades.

    It's the luck of the draw, not to be relied upon like "bigger is better". Bigger isn't always better, all things being equal as some suggest.

    San Jose PD used the Ranger T 147 loading and the first 6 perps they shot on the streets only required one rd and they were DRT as well. Never ceases to amaze me that so many put so much faith in "bigger is better".

    Brownie
    You aren't making any sense. Single data points prove nothing and certainly don't indicate a trend or a standard.

    I know of a situation where a guy was killed with an air rifle... went off accidentally and hit him in the neck and tore the carotid artery and he was by himself out screwing around and bled to death before even he realized how badly he was hurt... so let's all get air guns... again, single data points (or anecdotes) make for poor arguments.

    Bad guys (and good) die from all calibers if they're hit right, which they aren't the VAST majority of the time, and frequently they die much later rather than during the gunfight...and even at that, 80% of handgun victims survive... which is good... again the goal is not to kill but to incapacitate... which is why you keep shooting till they go down, and that happens faster with larger calibers all things being equal, like if you hit what you are aiming at.
    Doesn't mean that smaller won't work... under the right circumstances, but just because smaller can work, doesn't mean bigger isn't still better.

    If you are in the right place and can get first aid, you're very likely to survive a gunshot (see 80% figure above). I personally know an NYC Cop who was shot in the heart with a 9mm and got medical attention quickly enough that he survived to receive a heart transplant and is alive and well to this day many years later. Right place, right time, ball ammo 9mm went straight through minimizing the damage and with someone there to stop loss of blood (EMT's on the scene in minutes, in the hospital in minutes more) giving them time to save him. If that'd been a JHP or a larger caliber round, that man would be dead now.

    As for the guy shot in the chest with the 45 that exited his leg, the ball ammo explains a lot... probably hitting and ricocheting off bone rather than doing the damage a hollow point would have done. But a 9mm ball round would have most likely done the same thing, and caused less shock to his system doing it. And you didn't bother to mention whether the guy went down or not...

    Bigger isn't the answer to everything, in fact bigger bullets in certain calibers are less effective than lighter bullets in the same caliber. But all things being equal (comparing the right weight round for the gun, and JHP to JHP of equal effectiveness... all JHP are NOT created equal), a bigger round is going to make a bigger hole and do more damage and impart more kinetic energy and equate to more stopping power to end the fight sooner to everyone's benefit.

    Now, when it comes to gunfights and ending the fight sooner by putting the bad guy out of the fight, when isn't bigger better? When you can't handle the gun, that's when... and I alluded to that in my post... otherwise, if you can handle the weapon, when isn't bigger better... and don't give me anecdotes, give me some sound logic or some verifiable studies that carry some meaning.

    Stoney
    {If I'm in head on collision, I definitely want to be in the bigger vehicle... don't you?}

  13. #57
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    The bigger is better theory all the time [ for stopping someone ] is not a truism, and I didn't give anecdotals, I gave you real world first hand knowledge.

    Single points or not, it is what it is.

    6 for 6 in their first 6 uses of the Ranger T 147 9mm on the streets in San Jose doesn't suggest anecdotal either.

    "a bigger round is going to make a bigger hole and do more damage and impart more kinetic energy and equate to more stopping power to end the fight sooner to everyone's benefit."

    Pistol bullets don't possess stopping power.

    Brownie
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    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

  14. #58
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    The Buffalo Bore is about as good as it gets for .380.
    Best still work on your shot placement above the neck.

  15. #59
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    This reminds me of the horsepower wars that Detroit and other car makers went through (more is better). I'm happy with my Sig P232 for EDC.
    NRA, IDPA, GSSF & GSSA member
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  16. #60
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    Carrying all the time, being able to quickly access your gun, and accurately deploy it, having the will to deploy it. If I can do these things I like my chances at close range with my 7 shot 22 Mag.
    "You don't have a soul, you are a soul. You have a body." CS Lewis

    S&W .41 Mag - Colt DS - Ruger Single Six - Ruger Security Six - Buckmark-Beretta 21A - S&W 351PD 22 Mag- Spfld XD 9mm -- Plenty Of Long Guns--- Dry Powder and RCBS.

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