December 19th, 2005 05:25 PM
Glock Trigger Pull Weight
This is more a question for those who carry the Glock.
Anyone carry one with the 3.5 connector? I know putting one in doesnt mean it will instatly drop the pull weight down to 3.5.
Been thinking of putting one in my G17 for carry for a little lighter trigger plus use with the new 22 conversion kit i bought for it ..
So what say ye
ya or nay and if you do have the 3.5 connector what was your actual weight of the trigger pull before and after if you rember
December 19th, 2005 05:44 PM
nay (I guess?)
I don't know for sure, but many have told me that the 3.5 connector isn't a great idea for carry. I wanted to get one when I first got my G19.
I never get a solid explanation why. I wonder if it is suppose to cause reliability problems, or they think that having such a light trigger isn't safe for carry?
Please speak up if I'm wrong, so I can add the 3.5 and the night sights at the same time.
December 19th, 2005 05:55 PM
Alot i have read on Glock talk says the 3.5 connector only drops trigger pull down to 4.5#'s or 4#'s if your luckly So i dont understand it either
December 19th, 2005 06:03 PM
Ghost seems to make a decent kit theres others there on the page getting rid of the creep and overtravel will make me happy
December 19th, 2005 06:08 PM
I had this article saved on my computer
for a couple of months. I was thinking about opening up a thread on the 3.5# trigger & how that pull is weighed.
The real story Glock trigger pull weights:
Glock critics say its trigger pull is too light.
It may be that they've been weighing it wrong
Guns Magazine, Nov, 2004 by Massad Ayoob
My friend and fellow instructor Dave Maglio is a Glock fan. His department issues him something else to wear in uniform, but he almost always has a privately owned Glock for off-duty carry. When he became the 17th IDPA Four-Gun Master, he did it with a Glock 17 9mm in Stock Service Pistol and Enhanced Service Pistol class, and a .45 caliber Glock 21 in Custom Defense Pistol against the short trigger pull 1911 autos. "Hell," he said, "I would have used a Glock instead of a Ruger GP-100 for Stock Service Revolver if Glock made a wheel gun."
One of Dave's pet peeves is people who complain that the Glock trigger pull is too light. It comes out of the box with a nominal five-pound pull. This upsets some folks who think of that in terms of double action revolvers and autos with pull weights in the 12- and 14-pound range. "People are missing the reality," says Dave. "Think in terms of human engineering. The Glock trigger-pull weights are apparently taken at the tip of the trigger. It's a pivoting trigger design, so the leverage is greater there, and the pull-weight seems less."
He explains, "Look at how people actually shoot Glocks. Their index finger is on the middle of the trigger, where the safely lever is, not at the toe. The middle of the trigger is where we should be taking the measurement. It weighs out heavier there."
I proposed an experiment. Dave broke out his Glock armorer's kit and a trigger-pull gauge, and I unloaded the Black Hills 165-grain EXP .40 S&W ammo from the Glock 22 I was carrying. He then installed every reasonable combination we could think of, and weighed the triggers with each at the toe, and again at the center of the trigger.
Three Gets You Five
Glock sells the 3.5-pound connector only with the 6-inch barreled longslide target pistols and in the Tactical/Practical series with 5.3-inch barrels. These are respectively the Glock 17L and 34 in 9mm Luger and the G24 and G35 in .40 S&W. There is a long history of Glock factory literature adamantly stating that these trigger pulls are for competition, not duty or defensive carry. Every American police department that I know of which has adopted the G34 or G35 for issue has fielded it with a heavier trigger pull.
Measured at the toe of the trigger, the nominal 3.5-pound connector with standard trigger spring actually weighed three pounds, 3.7 ounces. Measured at the center of the trigger, however, it tripped at five pounds, 1.3 ounces.
Some Glock aficionados think the trick set-up is the 3.5-pound connector with the New York Trigger (NY-1) module replacing the standard S-shaped trigger spring. This gives a firm resistance from the beginning of the pull. The real, often unrecognized benefit of the NY Trigger is a smooth, easy pull that is generally estimated at a bit over five pounds. In fact, it measured six pounds 0.5 ounces at the toe of the trigger, and eight pounds even at the center. This system is reportedly standard with a Midwestern state police department that issues Glocks.
The Five-Pound Connection
The five-pound connector mated with the standard trigger spring is what comes out of the box when a private citizen buys most models of Glocks. It is said to have an average pull of 5.5 pounds. In measuring this combo on my G22, Dave got four pounds, 1.5 ounces when the gauge was hooked to the toe of the trigger, and six pounds on the nose when he attached it to the center of the trigger.
Then the threw in the NY-1 module, which is what I had in the gun to start with along with the nominally five-pound connector. It went six pounds, 1.1 ounces at the toe, seven pounds 1.5 ounces from the center. This combo is normally expected to bring pull weight up to eight pounds or so. However, I've shot this gnu a lot and worn it in well.
With the NY-2, or New York Plus module in place, which is said to deliver a pull of close to 12 pounds, we got eight pounds 1.1 ounces at the toe and 10 pounds even measuring from the center of the trigger. Finally, with the so-called "Miami trigger"--an eight-pound connector and the standard spring--the pull measured six pounds six ounces at the toe and 10 pounds even at the center.
The bottom line? As with all pistols, individual Glock pulls may weigh more or less than specified, or anywhere within the specified range. The pulls are indeed heavier at the center-where most of us actually put our finger-than at the tip. It was an interesting experiment, but I'll still keep the NY-1 module with five-pound connector in all the several Glocks I own for self-defense.
December 19th, 2005 06:26 PM
i read that and have the Article here somewhere depends where ya measure the weight
December 19th, 2005 06:42 PM
I have read that the 3.5# can cause the trigger action to feel "mushy". I have been tempted to try one in my Glock 22, but haven't because I feel very comfortable and used to the way the 5 pound connector feels.
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
December 19th, 2005 10:04 PM
I am neither a Glockophobe nor Glockophile but for carry I would not change what feels to me as standard - to be plenty light enough.
In extremis a 20# trigger would be manageable if smooth!!
Guy at club - more than one IIRC, have done the change - but mainly IIRC for IDPA use.
I will always feel more at ease with a tad heavy, but smooth.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
December 19th, 2005 10:09 PM
I'd rather stick with the 5# trigger pull..........Might "shoot my eye out" if I changed it.
Hey Bud?? when is that G29 coming you way?? This old Phart here didn't forget. LOL
Why Waltz when you can Rock-N-Roll
December 20th, 2005 11:36 AM
Bud, the 3.5# is specifically named as "not for carry/duty guns", by Glock. I really would not. I have had the Ghost (stock weight) Rocket connector(x2, a 19 and 27)), and it is the best trigger mod you can make. If you know the "rapid fire advantage", using Glock's short reset, the Rocket will make it the next best thing to a mod 18!
Be careful, if you install yourself: 1)the armorers' backplate is a necessity. 2)grind slowly; take off too much, and you lose all the benefit. It should stop your trigger just a gnat's breath after release, with another gnat's breath of travel allowed for positive reset.
Edit to add: I have used the 3.5#, but it isn't for the faint of heart. Legally, I would talk to my local DA before installing.
December 20th, 2005 05:30 PM
Might try a Rocket/ghost connector or a trigger stock i see lone wolf has a connector housing with a set screw in it to control overtravel..
i know glock states that with the stock 3.5 which is No longer avaible that its not for carry but none of the other makers say that..
Ghost will even see you a certain set of spring for carry with the 3.5 connector as a kit
December 20th, 2005 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by CLASS3NH
After first of year some time course they did call me today and left me a message about it so i better go call
December 23rd, 2005 02:11 PM
Just a couple things to say:
I have the 3.5# (Sherer) connector installed in my G30 carry gun. I don't have any numbers for you as I don't have a trigger pull gauge, but it is definately lighter than the stock pull. Good enough for me. Less sight picture disturbance while pulling trigger, almost undetectable. I like it and will put the 3.5# from my G30 in my G29 after I trade it in. Every Glock I will ever own will have the 3.5# connector in. JMO.
I have over 700 rounds through my gun with the 3.5#er in an no malfunctions or reliability problems whatsoever.
3.5#, 4#, 6# or 10#. Doesn't matter what pull your trigger is, keep your finger off the trigger and the gun won't fire. Simple. Just because you decrease the pull weight of a trigger, doesn't mean that your finger will automatically go to it. Don't play around with it, just handle your weapon like an adult and you won't have any negligent discharges. Safety is simple, but you must remain aware of it always. Some things can be trained into "muscle memory" status, but safety is not one of them.
Regarding the topic of using aftermarket parts in a defensive shoot. Mr. Ayoob has years to track down a single case where there was a guilty verdict in a self tried for defense shooting where the trigger pull weight was even a miniscule factor in the verdict. Not a single case has ever, ever been found. I don't worry about it. Bottom line, if I shoot someone in self defense, my actions are on trial not my weapon's parts or internals. I am simply not worried about it. I don't think any of you should be either.
December 23rd, 2005 03:09 PM
EXCELLENT POST freakshow10mm - and I concur 100%.
I have the 3.5 connector in all my Glocks too. I shoot better with them - by using them in competitiion first I have 100% confidence in them - so that is what I carry.
If I have to use one of my Glocks in an SD role - the case/trial will be regarding whether the shoot was "righteous" or not. It won't be about what connector I have in my Glock.
December 23rd, 2005 03:40 PM
my connector experience
I am a measurement fanatic and I do have a trigger pull gauge. I have fired 1186 .45ACP rounds in 2 G21s and 80 .40S&W rounds in a G27, all with 3.5# connectors and had only 2 problems (detailed below).
I have used stock Glock 5# connectors (that's the actual number on the box), the Glock 3.5# connectors, Scherer 3.5# connectors, Ghost Rocket 3.5# connector (with trigger overtravel tab), and the Ghost Ultimate 3.5# connectors. I use the competition trigger spring, which is slightly stronger than the standard trigger spring.
I find these trigger pull forces at the point on the trigger where the center of my finger goes:
--nominal 5# with standard spring is just under 5.0# actual
--nominal 3.5# with standard spring ranges between 3.5 and 4.0 pounds
--nominal 3.5# with competition spring is around 3.40.
I and others rate the competition trigger spring fine for carry, because the tension of the trigger spring helps pull the trigger; so a slightly stronger spring equals slightly less pulling by the finger. The tension of this spring is not vital to the function of the Glock, which can be assembled and dry-fired without a trigger spring. This corroborates reports I have read of a shooter not knowing this spring was broken until he found it when cleaning up after a trip to the range.
I installed the Ghost Rocket in one G21, firing 318 test rounds at the range, but got 2 light strikes. A different firing pin spring compensates for this, but that is a spring I choose not to change in a for-carry pistol. This problem exists mainly with the 21s according to Arthur Viani (Mr. Ghost), and is not supposed to occur with the smaller calibers.
The Ghost connectors fit perfectly in the channel of the trigger housing, better than the Glock OEMs and the Scherers, both of which I have seen slightly scrape the rear edge of the channel.
My choice: I buy my Glocks with night sights, adding a 3.5# Ghost Ultimate and a competition trigger spring for all purposes.
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