I have 1850 rounds through my G17 without cleaning - ZERO mals

I have 1850 rounds through my G17 without cleaning - ZERO mals

This is a discussion on I have 1850 rounds through my G17 without cleaning - ZERO mals within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I wanted to run a test more in order with how a gun may be used in reality where one doesn't have time/opportunity to clean ...

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Thread: I have 1850 rounds through my G17 without cleaning - ZERO mals

  1. #1
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    I have 1850 rounds through my G17 without cleaning - ZERO mals

    I wanted to run a test more in order with how a gun may be used in reality where one doesn't have time/opportunity to clean it. Although the one session 1000 round tests are interesting, they aren't very realistic in that it would be really, really rare to need to shoot 1000 rounds as fast as possible.

    What I wanted to look at is what would happen if a 1000 rounds are fired over a period of time and the gun isn't cleaned.

    Details:
    Actually, I have not cleaned it for more than 1450 rounds, but I have lubed it, but not every time. I ran a bore snake through the barrel twice.

    Iím vacillating on how to Ďcountí the 1450 rounds hereís why: I had shot a couple of hundred rounds through it before I started keeping count. So it hadnít been cleaned when I started. The other thing is I installed a Ghost Rocket connector and I got the slide lock lever spring installed incorrectly and as a result, I had numerous problems with the slide locking back prematurely. Realizing something wasnít right, I discovered the problem, corrected it and for the next 1250 rounds I havenít had a problem/malfunction of any kind Ė nothing Ė zero mals.

    The reason Iím vacillating on the round count is because I did have problems with the first 200 rounds and I didnít record how many of the 200 rounds I shot after I fixed my error. Second, the accumulation of dirtiness is over more than 1450 rounds and there have been no mals of any kind attributable to dirt or not cleaning it.

    I wanted to shoot at least a thousand without cleaning or lubing, but apparently the engineer in me will just not allow me shoot that many rounds without lubing. So I lubed the slide rails and the connector from time to time.

    I shot the last 1250 rounds in 8 sessions running from 9 Sep to 14 Oct. The highest count for one session was 350 rounds. The 1450 count started 19 Sep.

    Oh yeah, I almost forgot, the ammo was mostly Dick's Remington UMC and some WWB.
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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    Back in July, while attending two 2-day courses back-to-back (4 days of training), I ran 1800 rounds of Wolf through my 17 w/o cleaning or lube (and honestly, as it's mostly just a "range gun," it probably hadn't been cleaned for a few hundred before that). I'll also add that we did a lot of stuff from prone, supine, as well as general rolling around on the ground so there was dust/dirt everywhere inside the gun.

    I had ZERO malfunctions that were not induced by inert dummy rounds and when I disassembled it after the classes, there was still grease on the lube-points (which reinforces my preference for grease instead of oil).
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

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  3. #3
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    Kinda makes you wonder why some make such a big deal out of shooting 1000 rounds without lubing or cleaning. I'm not done yet; 1450 is just where I currently am.

    I shot 1850 through my M&P without cleaning it and didn't have a single problem.

    While I couldn't make myself not lube the rails occassionally, I believe Glocks, M&Ps, XDs, sigpro (2022), and Beretta's PX4, H&K USP and P2000s should have no probs with this.

    Sigs (226/229), Beretta 92s, etc. have steel running on AL and like to be 'wet'. But newer lubes, e.g. WeaponShield very likely takes care of that problem.
    I'm too young to be this old!
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  4. #4
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    Tangle,

    My training first gen glock, with over 93K through it presently has run 6Kthrough it without any intervention of lubing, cleaning or even wiping it down.

    The 6K point was easy to keep track of due to loaning it to students and being reimbursed for the ammo they used while out here training. The gun sat with 2800+ through it in two days for over a month in a range bag, was brought back out and another 1500 through it, sat again in a range bag another couple of months or so and then another 1700 run through it by another student.

    No malfs of any kind whatsoever in that time period, and the gun was still up and running like a swiss watch and didn't need to be cleaned in reality for any reason other than I got bored one day and decided to clean a few range guns at the same time.

    The lube I use at all times on my weapons is gun-slick. It gets douched with brake cleaner, the bore gets a pass with a mop only, then lubed in the appropriate places for the glock and I have no doubt this one could run well over 10K without any intervention at all.

    Edited to add: BTW--I can run 1K through it in something under 8 minutes if I so desired.

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    It's hard to beat a Glock - and you know we've both tried -
    I'm too young to be this old!
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    Senior Member Array paul45's Avatar
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    1000 to 1500 between cleanings on my "play" guns is normal for me - but not for my carry guns - I clean them immediately after use - everytime! Glocks like to play in the dirt but I keep the serious ones absolutely clean and properly lubed.
    "Being PARANOID is just plain smart thinking when they are really out to get you!"

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    I shoot with some people that cant believe I dont clean my guns everytime I shoot... I laugh.. they shot a box of 50 or less and have three guns to clean.... waste of time. If anything once i get home ill put more lube but if SHTF I wanna know and trust I dont need to clean my gun every time i use it...

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    It's hard to beat a Glock - and you know we've both tried

    Yes sir, this morning I'm going into the gun shop for the day and I've got the g17 3rd gen in this rig I had built for me. Thats the G17 3rd gen in the rig exactly as I'm wearing it this morning

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    All three of my 1911s including even the short barrel Colt 'Defender' will run this long under same conditions no problem...and shoot accurately to the point of rounds repeatably shooting through the same hole. This occurred to me last night during training.

    When the shot number hits 4 or 5K of same then IMHO that would be something to be remarked toward, for an average pistol that is not a Glock, HK, or Sig P Series.

    While for a Glock or HK and Sig P series 4 to 5K rounds wouldn't even be breathing hard.
    Double or triple (Glock) that number and then for them that would be something to remark about.

    Glock, and Sig P Series as well as HK are very well known to be hell and back capable enduring all manner of use including even being run dry for extended durations. A little over a thousand rounds upon being cleaned and lubed to start is nothing for them, akin to not even having been fired but for the first shot.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

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    I thought the acids from not cleaning the pistol would eventually ruin the pistol

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    ...When the shot number hits 4 or 5K of same then IMHO that would be something to be remarked toward, for an average pistol that is not a Glock, HK, or Sig P Series.

    While for a Glock or HK and Sig P series 4 to 5K rounds wouldn't even be breathing hard.
    Double or triple (Glock) that number and then for them that would be something to remark about.
    I know. But, I'm looking specifically at 1450 rounds without a single malfunction of any kind - not ammo related, user induced - nothing, simply no mals or misfires of any kind.

    The reason I posted this, is back in the spring there was a big to do about some tests where people were shooting their guns for 1000 rounds without cleaning or lubing them. Much to my surprise, several Glocks had multiple failures in the tests, so I wanted to see if my Glock would fair any better - it did; in fact, it ran perfectly.

    Further, in a video recently posted, James Yeager and another shooter fired 1000 rounds through a stock G19 as fast as they could. There were numerous failures in that test. By numerous, I mean like 5 - 6 mals, just with Yeager. The other shooter had none.

    We can excuse this with shooter induced, but Yeager certainly is an experienced shooter, but still the failures count.

    And I want to add this: There is a claim that if you put aftermarket parts in a Glock, they won't be as reliable. But as I recall in the tests last spring, the Glocks were completely stock. The G19 used in Yeager's test was completely stock and they all had two things in common: they were stock; they had failures.

    OTOH, my Glock is not stock, I installed and fitted a Ghost Rocket connector, a slightly extended mag release, and went from stock sights to Trijicon, to XS Big Dots and I have had no failures of any kind in 1450 rounds to date, and that number is gonna go up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    ...Sig P Series...are very well known to be hell and back capable enduring all manner of use including even being run dry for extended durations. A little over a thousand rounds upon being cleaned and lubed to start is nothing for them, akin to not even having been fired but for the first shot.
    That's very encouraging, and not to doubt you at all, but I'd sure like to see some corroboration of that. Sigs are steel running on aluminum, albeit, anodized aluminum, and that's not normally a good 'dry' running combination. Could you share some support for the above claim for Sig Classics?

    I know some top level shooters that consider 5000 rounds through their Glocks and CZ in one case, without cleaning to be routine.
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  12. #12
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Tangle,

    There were IIRC two torture test vids made and floating around a decade ago in the late 90s but may have been as recent as the early '00s.
    Both were specific to the Sig P Series IIRC one was a P220 made for Mil/Gov buyers by Sig and the other was a civilian market oriented video featuring a IIRC P226 developed by a civilain owner in collaboration with some gunfu website. Both were abuse and 'torture' tests featuring them being run dry, with sand, water, run over by vehicles tracked and wheeled, and more. As I recall it was all pretty entertaining stuff. :p

    As well the Sig P Series have been and had been known world wide prior since before Glock hit the market as being the 'Glock' of the gun market. Basically built like tanks and extremely durable though with good to great point to point accuracy and resistance to wearing out.

    I haven't seen either video in a long time but hit YouTube as I'd bet one or the other or more are featured there.
    The HK 'USP' was same similar in regard and I believe someone ran a torture test on that too (civilian) with round count documentation again years ago.

    Anyway Glock = AK like durability and all conditions functionality as based on very many end user reports & experiences

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Further, in a video recently posted, James Yeager and another shooter fired 1000 rounds through a stock G19 as fast as they could. There were numerous failures in that test. By numerous, I mean like 5 - 6 mals, just with Yeager. The other shooter had none.

    We can excuse this with shooter induced, but Yeager certainly is an experienced shooter, but still the failures count.
    most, if not all, of those failures were due to the ammo...the rounds fired when they were reloaded into a magazine and hit again.
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

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    fyi

    we just went through firearms training at the PD
    our instructors all recently took training at Blackwater, they told us the Blackwater folks have a Glock (I think it was a 17) that has over 90,000 through it without cleaning, still cranking away with no problems
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    On Saturday, Oct 18, I will be in a match outside of OKC that is a 1000 round match, an annual event here. Right now, it looks like about 15 people will be attending. No lube, cleaning, or maintenance will be allowed during the match and the number of malfs will be recorded. As ever, it will be interesting to see how many perfect guns turn out to not be so perfect.
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