Accidental Discharge of a Cocked and Locked 1911?

Accidental Discharge of a Cocked and Locked 1911?

This is a discussion on Accidental Discharge of a Cocked and Locked 1911? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have started to carry a Kimber Ultra Carry II as my alternate EDC, but I must admit that it took me carrying it around ...

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Thread: Accidental Discharge of a Cocked and Locked 1911?

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Ron's Avatar
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    Accidental Discharge of a Cocked and Locked 1911?

    I have started to carry a Kimber Ultra Carry II as my alternate EDC, but I must admit that it took me carrying it around in my holster cocked and locked, but unloaded, quite awhile before I became convinced that the hammer would not fall by itself.

    Does anyone know of a documented case where there was, in fact, an accidental discharge of a cocked and locked 1911?

    When I say "accidental discharge" I mean where the hammer fell and discharged a round notwithstanding that both the thumb and grip safety were not disengaged.

    I hope not, but am most curious to find out whether this has happened.
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    Your Kimber also has a firing pin safty, so you can rest easy. There were stories about the old military 1911s firing from being dropped because the firing pin would frefloat and slamfire when dropped. That is why they now have firing pin saftys to keep the firing pin from moving unless the trigger is pulled or in case of the Schwartz safety (kimber) the grip safety is compressed all the way. Some custom makers use lighter firing pins and stronger springs to keep it from moving if dropped.

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    Distinguished Member Array GWRedDragon's Avatar
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    Have you seen this yet?

    Is Cocked and Locked Dangerous?

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    Member Array V8 Thumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWRedDragon View Post
    Have you seen this yet?

    Is Cocked and Locked Dangerous?
    That is a very good link. Here's another one:

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...ion-check.html

    I too carry a 1911... the only time it's not on my hip is when I'm in bed, and when there my M&P 45 w/ Surefire X300 weapon light/grip switch is on constant stand-by

    My carry 1911 is Sig Sauer, it too has a firing pin safety. Do the function check to the letter, make absoulutely certain your weapon is unloaded before safety checking. Rest easy, you have chosen a very safe, very capable defensive tool

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    Member Array Jaystekan's Avatar
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    Ron,
    I feel you pain. I am just getting started carrying my first 1911, a Colt Defender. I know it's safer than most firearms, I know it has a bunch of safeties, but that nagging concern in the back of my mind says "Man that just looks dangerous." I did the same thing, carried it around cocked and locked with a snapcap chambered. I am just recently, withing the last few days, starting to carry loaded. I know it's all in my mind, but coming from an XD, it's just a strange sight so see a gun on my hip with a hammer, let alone a hammer pulled back. I did some internet research and I have read about a 1911 going off accidently when dropped, but it wasn't due to the hammer falling, I was due to the firing pin momentum from ebing dropped and then hitting the primer. I am pretty sure a forum member here had that happen, but a firing pin block negates that worry. I just keep telling myself, its all in my head when I look at the cocked hammer. My mom on the other hand almost had a heart-attack when she saw me carrying that way when I went to visit her.
    Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

  6. #6
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Does anyone know of a documented case where there was, in fact, an accidental discharge of a cocked and locked 1911?

    When I say "accidental discharge" I mean where the hammer fell and discharged a round notwithstanding that both the thumb and grip safety were not disengaged.
    No, you also have to remember that there is also the half-cock notch to catch hammer in the event that the full cock hammer hooks are sheared off.

    Unless you count the drop fire possibiity (1 in 1,000,000 but does happen), or getting your gun sucked into an MRI machine the gun will not fire unless you make it fire.

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    Distinguished Member Array Rcher's Avatar
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    My first 1911 was issued to me in the military about 30 years ago. When oversea's, we carried condition one. Now that I'm a civilian, I still carry condition one. I know of nobody, who has ever known anybody, that has had a 1911 or any variant AD. I personally feel that the 1911 is THE safest handgun to carry condition one.



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    In over twenty years of carrying a gun, and often a 1911, I have never had a case of a gun going off by itself.

    For the 1911 to fire the Grip Safety must be depressed, requiring a proper firing grip, and something must apply pressure to the Trigger in a rearward motion.

    In short, you have to intentionaly fire the dang thing. If it bothers you get a Holster with a Thumb Break that goes between the Hammer and the back of the Slide. I did this at first, now I may just shove the gun in my waistband with no Holster and not worry about

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I dropped a 1911 RIA 45 compact out of my holster,It fell straight down on the barrel on a tiled cement floor and fired,even tho it appeared that the thumb safety may have disengaged while falling past the holster,I believe the firing pin inertia striking the primer is what caused it to fire.It wouldn't of mattered if the thumb safety was engaged or not the weapon would of fired.I put in a heavier wolff firing pin spring to prevent it from ever happening again.
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  10. #10
    B52
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    +1 for the heavier wolff firing pin spring.

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array Ron's Avatar
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    Thanks all for your responses. Just for the record, before I decided on a 1911, I did do my homework and read everthing I could find on the 1911, including the sites you cited in your posts, even had a few PM discussions with JD.

    I do a function check every time before I leave the range, and if, for some reason, don't get to the range for awhile, I unload my gun, and do a function check just to be sure.

    I am now quite comfortable with Cocked and Locked carry, although given dukalmighy's post, I am going to try real hard not to drop the gun, and was really just curious about whether anyone on the Forum knew of a true AD.

    Ron
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

    J. R. R. Tolkien

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
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    I am familiar with one incident involving a newly installed thumb safety. The safety was not engaging properly and if pressure was put on the trigger it appeared to be working. However once the thumb safety was disengaged the hammer
    fell without the trigger being depressed or the grip safety being pushed in.
    "First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
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  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by automatic slim View Post
    I am familiar with one incident involving a newly installed thumb safety. The safety was not engaging properly and if pressure was put on the trigger it appeared to be working. However once the thumb safety was disengaged the hammer
    fell without the trigger being depressed or the grip safety being pushed in.
    Thanks. That is interesting, although I believe the problem you describe would likely be discovered during a funcion safety test.

    What I do with my unloaded pistol is to get the hammer cocked, put the thumb safety on and then pull the trigger hard while depressing the grip safety. I then take off the thumb safety and again pull the trigger hard, but without deprsssing the grip safety. I think, at that point, the hammer would have dropped after I removed the thumb safety and I would be aware of a problem.

    Lastly, I disengage both safeties and pull the trigger to drop the hammer

    I think that is right if I understood your post correctly.
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

    J. R. R. Tolkien

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    Ron,

    I've not read of any AD's with the newer 1911's...never, nada, zip, zero!
    I did send you a PM asking you if you had got that Ultra ejection problem cured...apparently so, eh?
    How's that Fist holster work for ya'?

    Stay armed...with a Kimber Ultra...stay safe!
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    Wink

    Gee...Factoring in the Ambulance Chasing society that we live in today...do you think Colt Firearms would still be in business if Colt 1911 pattern handguns were discharging all by themselves?
    Aceoky and OD* like this.

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