Benefits of Similar Platform

This is a discussion on Benefits of Similar Platform within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So, wife is getting ready to do her CHL class in December. During our last shooting session with the instructor, I became painfully aware that ...

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Thread: Benefits of Similar Platform

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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Benefits of Similar Platform

    So, wife is getting ready to do her CHL class in December. During our last shooting session with the instructor, I became painfully aware that she does not need to be using our Bersa Thunder. The safety/decocker and her having a hard time working the action, it just isn't a good idea for her to be trying to figure the thing out if she needs to be shooting it.

    Here is my thinking. She likes the way my PT111 works, since it doesn't have a decocker, just a safety, and it stays in SA mode when placed on safe. She can work the action fine, she just needs to work on her accuracy with it. That should be able to be overcome with just a bit of practice, and trigger control.

    What I am thinking of doing is getting a Taurus 24/7, and giving her my PT111. My thoughts are that the actions work the same, the safety is in the same place, etc.. Either gun would be used for daily carry, hoping she decides to carry daily, and home defense, ect. I would go with the 9mm version mostly because based on the Taurus info, the 9mm is capable of shooting rounds with up to 413 ft lbs of energy, and the 40 S&W is only capable of shooting rounds with 388 ft lbs of energy. Speer Gold Dots just happen to fit right in the range Taurus recommends.

    So, my question is, am I thinking right in keeping the platforms similar so that in a stressful situation there will be less confusion for her? Is there substantial benefit in her being able to pick up my gun and be able to use it without additional thought?

    Does anyone have any other suggestions on this, or do you all do things differently?
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    Without commenting on the specific firearms, if you do enough practice to develop the muscle memory it can help. Once it is developed your body knows what to do under stess, which is helpful.
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    Senior Member Array BeefyBeefo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    So, my question is, am I thinking right in keeping the platforms similar so that in a stressful situation there will be less confusion for her?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf
    Is there substantial benefit in her being able to pick up my gun and be able to use it without additional thought?
    Yes, again.

    I follow that same line of thought.

    -Jeff-

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    So, my question is, am I thinking right in keeping the platforms similar so that in a stressful situation there will be less confusion for her? Is there substantial benefit in her being able to pick up my gun and be able to use it without additional thought?

    Sounds good to me. I beleive in the KISS principal escpecially for one that is not an avid shooter.


    Does anyone have any other suggestions on this, or do you all do things differently?
    I'm not sure that I agree with FPS of energy on the .40 vs. the 9 as being an accurate indicator of which cartridge is more effective. Sure, FPS is a standard to measure by but it is not the ONLY thing to consider.

    Without getting into a caliber debate, I usally reccomend shooting the biggest caliber that one can accurately control. If that be a 40, great, if not, the 9mm will do.

    What matter above all is proficiency and that only comes with practice,practice and more pracitice.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    HotGuns,

    I wasn't only looking at the fps. I already have a 9mm and reload for it, don't have a .40, but it seemed odd that they don't rate their .40 cals for top personal defense ammo but do rate the 9mm for upper end, or +p ammo above the 400 ft lbs range.

    I could go with the .45 cal, since I have one and reload for it, but they only rate them for a top fps of 835 on a 230 gr bullet which is pretty low in my opinion.

    Other considerations were that the 9mm has a 17 +1 capacity, the 40 has a 15 +1 cap, and that 45 has a 12 +1 cap.

    One other thing that was in the mix is that the 24/7 is a bit bigger and longer barrel so maybe she would run more rounds without getting fatigued, thereby practicing more.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    Senior Member Array WC145's Avatar
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    My duty and off duty guns, except for the BUG that backs up my BUG, are all 9mm and DAO - no safeties or decockers. I like knowing that whatever I'm practicing with on a given day, all of my other guns are going to operate the same way. Whatever training I do with one applies to all the rest.

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    Sounds good to me Farronwolf.
    Anything that will get her practicing more is a good thing.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    I would say this: whatever you go with, you and your wife should be intimately familiar with all guns you would conceivably use in a self-defense role. With two different types of guns that would simply mean the minimum regular range time would be doubled. If you plan to practice that often, I wouldn't worry about it.

    Personally, I would think about the following: when trading off weapons at the firing line, does she walk up, pick up the gun, and immediately know what to do? If not, there will be some fumbling ("oh right, the safety is THERE", etc). That would be what I would look for to mean more practice was needed.
    "Trust in God with hand on sword" -Inscription on my family's coat of arms from medieval England
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    Ron
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    I agree with your thinking about the same platform, but I wonder about a new shooter using a SA only striker fired pistol, even with the manual safety. If it were my wife just getting her carry license and looking a for a carry gun, I personally would not encourage a SA only pistol.

    OMP, with which I know others will not agree.
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

    J. R. R. Tolkien

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    I like the same platform and same caliber.

    I think the PT-111 24/7 or 809 would be good choices
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    I agree with your thinking about the same platform, but I wonder about a new shooter using a SA only striker fired pistol, even with the manual safety. If it were my wife just getting her carry license and looking a for a carry gun, I personally would not encourage a SA only pistol.

    OMP, with which I know others will not agree.
    Ron,

    She isn't necessarily a new shooter. She has been shooting including pistols for years, but prefers revolvers. I have her GP 100 for her at the office currently, and I originally thought about getting her a 642 but I don't like the ballistics of it even with +p ammo and would prefer for her to have more rounds. So we are looking at autos for now. The 642 may come later but we will just have to see when we start to work with carry methods and such.

    That being said, the 24/7 has the ability to decock with the safety and making it a DA/SA also. I am just not so sure she is going to want to carry that big of a pistol. I will have to wait till I can get her hands on them.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    Ron
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    Ron,

    She isn't necessarily a new shooter. She has been shooting including pistols for years, but prefers revolvers. I have her GP 100 for her at the office currently, and I originally thought about getting her a 642 but I don't like the ballistics of it even with +p ammo and would prefer for her to have more rounds. So we are looking at autos for now. The 642 may come later but we will just have to see when we start to work with carry methods and such.

    That being said, the 24/7 has the ability to decock with the safety and making it a DA/SA also. I am just not so sure she is going to want to carry that big of a pistol. I will have to wait till I can get her hands on them.
    My mistake, I somehow thought she was new to guns. Even so, I was looking at the PT145 or PT745 for myself, and decided against carrying a striker fired SA only semi-automatic, even with the thumb safety.

    At least with my 1911, you know immediately that it is cocked by the hammer, and you have the grip safety, in addition to the thumb safety.

    I know that a lot of folks carry them, but the idea just made me uncomfortable.

    By the way, I also have a 642, which I carry when I need to tuck my shirt. I hear your concern about the 5 rounds, but with +P Gold Dots I feel that the 5 rounds are enough for most situations I am likely to be involved in. I also carry a speed loader just in case.

    Good luck in your search.
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

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    Senior Member Array BeefyBeefo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    I agree with your thinking about the same platform, but I wonder about a new shooter using a SA only striker fired pistol, even with the manual safety. If it were my wife just getting her carry license and looking a for a carry gun, I personally would not encourage a SA only pistol.

    OMP, with which I know others will not agree.
    I will never understand this line of thought. As long as the individual can follow the basic and simple rules of handling a firearm, I don't see how there is any chance for a problem. Am I missing something?

    -Jeff-

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    Ron
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeefyBeefo View Post
    I will never understand this line of thought. As long as the individual can follow the basic and simple rules of handling a firearm, I don't see how there is any chance for a problem. Am I missing something?

    -Jeff-
    Yes you are, Jeff. And that is that we are all capable of making mistakes, and for the new, inexperienced shooter, IMO there is an even greater potential.

    So, recognizing that reality, which, by the way, we read and hear about all too frequently, even involving LEOs, if it were my wife I would want her to handle, as a first gun, one which offers the least possibility for her making a mistake.

    If we were all always perfect, and never screwed up, then I would be in your camp. Unfortunately, that is not the way it is in real life.
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

    J. R. R. Tolkien

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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    I understand what Ron is saying. During stress, and sometimes even during non stressful situations people overlook certain things including safety.

    One example. During the session a week ago with the guy that is going to be teaching the wifes CHL class, one of the other people that was shooting was a former New Orleans police officer. Several times during the session the instructor had to tell the guy to take his finger off the trigger when we were standing in the ready possition and waiting for the command to fire, or immediately after we had fired and were supposed to be placing the gun back on safe and waiting for instruction.

    I don't know if the guy just learned bad gun handling skills to start with, or whether the guy just wasn't paying attention, it really doesn't matter. He was using a Ruger P944 or similar 40 cal I believe, and I don't know about the triggers on them. Luckily he didn't get jumpy on the trigger and let one fly somewhere it wasn't supposed to be.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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