Is the Pm9 (Kahr) a true DAO

Is the Pm9 (Kahr) a true DAO

This is a discussion on Is the Pm9 (Kahr) a true DAO within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Does the trigger cock the striker fully then release pin. Or does racking the slide cock the striker fully (or partially) and then the trigger ...

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Thread: Is the Pm9 (Kahr) a true DAO

  1. #1
    Member Array hihosilver's Avatar
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    Is the Pm9 (Kahr) a true DAO

    Does the trigger cock the striker fully then release pin. Or does racking the slide cock the striker fully (or partially) and then the trigger either finishes cocking and release pin. I know some of these type guns have different setups (glock, m&p, XD, MILL PRO) I just didnt know what setup the Kahrs have... PM9
    thanks....
    Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it ......

  2. #2
    JD
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    It's partially cocked by the slide cycling per the instruction manual.
    http://www.kahr.com/DL/kahrmanual.pdf

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    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    It's partially cocked by the slide cycling per the instruction manual.
    http://www.kahr.com/DL/kahrmanual.pdf
    That's correct. The double-action sear won't engage the striker unless it's been cocked and not released (fired). So it's a double-action with no second strike capability. Weird huh? I still love 'em.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

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    Senior Member Array cwblanco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matiki View Post
    That's correct. The double-action sear won't engage the striker unless it's been cocked and not released (fired). So it's a double-action with no second strike capability. Weird huh? I still love 'em.
    I would like to read more on this. My understanding of a true double action is that the action can be cocked by the trigger. An example is the double action revolver which has a second strike capability (although it be the next chamber). When did double action become different for a autoloader?

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    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwblanco View Post
    I would like to read more on this. My understanding of a true double action is that the action can be cocked by the trigger. An example is the double action revolver which has a second strike capability (although it be the next chamber). When did double action become different for a autoloader?
    There's an animation of the Kahr trigger somewhere... I'll see if I can find it.

    When you rack the slide on the Kahr the striker get's held back a bit. That allows the sear to engage it when you pull the trigger. Pulling the trigger causes the sear to rotate and pull the striker back until it releases and fires.

    If you get a failure to fire then you'll have to rack the slide to get the striker held back far enough to be engaged by the sear. This is because once the sear releases it, the striker is now too far past the sear to be engaged again.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

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    Member Array hihosilver's Avatar
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    I think since a true double action would have too much triigger weight. THat would be my guess why they all now are pre cocked or semi precocked. I think a true DAO would be safer. I know the cocked strikers have a safety block that moves unless the triggers pulled, but still seems safer. I think the Rohrbaugh R9 is the only true DAO any more. THe prices are steep. I wonder if the Glocks and Kahrs Partial cock (from slide) is enough to fire round, or if the trigger completing the cocking gives it the extra force needed.
    Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it ......

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    Ex Member Array unisonic12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hihosilver View Post
    I think the Rohrbaugh R9 is the only true DAO any more.
    Lots of pistols have true DAO pulls on the first round. Rugers with external hammers, SIGs, Walther PPK/s, etc.

    The Kel-Tec P11 has a true (albeit horrible) DOA trigger pull every time.

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    Member Array OhShoot's Avatar
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    I think the terms SA, DA, DAO should be abandoned for striker fired weapons...they just aren't really descriptive.

    - OS

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    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    Glock

    If you remove the firing pin safety and spring (and the extractor) from a Glock, replace the slide cover plate with the orange Armorer's plate, and move the sear down off of the striker with a punch, it will fire a primer. Possible to do, impossible to do accidently.

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    Ex Member Array unisonic12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superhouse 15 View Post
    If you remove the firing pin safety and spring (and the extractor) from a Glock, replace the slide cover plate with the orange Armorer's plate, and move the sear down off of the striker with a punch, it will fire a primer. Possible to do, impossible to do accidently.
    And the point of doing this is?

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    Ex Member Array unisonic12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhShoot View Post
    I think the terms SA, DA, DAO should be abandoned for striker fired weapons...they just aren't really descriptive.

    - OS
    That's why Glock calls it SAFE action.

  12. #12
    Member Array hihosilver's Avatar
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    I think Superhouse might have been answering my question about "is the half cocked position enough to fire the round, or does it have to be fully cocked" but I may be wrong..
    Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it ......

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    Ex Member Array unisonic12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hihosilver View Post
    is the half cocked position enough to fire the round, or does it have to be fully cocked" but I may be wrong..
    No, it will not set off the primer. In fact, there is no way for the striker, at least in the Glock and Kahr pistols, to even protrude beyond the breach face at all because of the striker block safety. That safety/plunger, cannot be depressed up and out of the way of the striker unless the trigger is pulled. This is what is commonly called the "drop safety".

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    Senior Member Array cwblanco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhShoot View Post
    I think the terms SA, DA, DAO should be abandoned for striker fired weapons...they just aren't really descriptive. - OS
    Actually, deceptive would be a more accurate term.

    The Ruger P95 is an example of a true double action pistol. The trigger can be cocked solely by the trigger. However, the P95 is not a striker-fired pistol. The use of terms such as "double action" on almost all striker fired pistol actually is a misnomer when using traditional term terminology. I wish that manufacturers would quit using this deceptive terminology.
    In summary, my opinion is that the following popular pistols actually are single-action pistols, regardless of what they elect to call them:

    Glock
    Springfield XD

    "Half-cocked" does not make them rise to the level of double action.

  15. #15
    JD
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    How about assisted single action?

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