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Having some issues with my PM9

3K views 39 replies 22 participants last post by  Muddflap 
#1 ·
The last two trips to the range Ive had around 5 failure to fire's out of 1 hundred rounds. The gun is new and now has around 400 rounds down the pipe. This last trip, once it started happening. I finished the box of ammo with another gun and had no issues. Only when using the PM9. This is UMC practice ammo. Ive shot 50 rounds of Gold Dot's which is my carry ammo and have not had any failures. Problem is Ive lost confidence in the gun now. It also effects my accuracy because I dont know when its going to fire.

I saved a failure bullet. Its striking nice but its off center. Is this normal and could that be my issue? Ive attached a picture.

I always clean my guns after use... Ive never detailed stripped it though... but shouldnt have to. Im considering sending back to Kahr for them to look at it.

I dont want a picky gun that refuses certain ammo. Ive fired hundreds of rounds of UMC down my Glock.
 

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#2 ·
Might be wrong, but the primer strike looks fine to me (not like a light strike). Did you compare that with any spent casings? Betting they look the same. I think it was the ammo, not the gun. It's been about 14 years, but I've had trouble with multiple batches of UMC, won't buy it anymore. This includes a squib load that temporarily turned my Glock 19 into a really big paperweight.
 
#3 ·
Hard to tell from the pic if it is a light strike or not. The location of the firing pin strike does not seem to be an issue.If a change in ammo results in the same problem I would send it back for repair. Otherwise you may never have confidence in the gun again.
 
#6 ·
Wet is well oiled. Be cautious though, there is a fine line between well oiled and over oiled.

And it aint your gun! The strikes are fine. Off center is OK, its nothing to worry about. Its the UMC ammo, its pretty much bottom of the barrel, factory seconds or thirds stuff. Fine for practice, but thats about it.
 
#7 ·
Wet is well oiled. Be cautious though, there is a fine line between well oiled and over oiled.

And it aint your gun! The strikes are fine. Off center is OK, its nothing to worry about. Its the UMC ammo, its pretty much bottom of the barrel, factory seconds or thirds stuff. Fine for practice, but thats about it.
I've heard the same thing about UMC ammo...Gander Mtn. had a heck of a price on it, but my gun shop warneed me about it...he had heard about lots of 'dud' rounds from various customers.
Cheap ammo is not worth the savings, and I certainly would not use cheap stuff in any 'situation'. OMHO
 
#8 ·
This lasty trip my gun was pretty dry. I wasnt sure if oil was causing the problem last time. Why would this ammo fire fine in my other guns though? That is what doesnt make sense to me.

Yes its very cheap ammo. This is the stuff Dick's puts on sale for $8 a box when you buy a case... so I have a ton of it now.

I wish I could take a better picture. Its surprisngly hard to get my camera to focus on the end of the shell.
 
#9 ·
Your other gun may strike the primer harder. Or you may just have gotten lucky.

I used to buy UMC in bulk for practice specifically because there are so many FTF. It helped me get over my flinch when I first started shooting.
 
#10 ·
It really looks like an ammo issue. I'd try using some other cheap generic ammo and compare.

As far as lubing the gun, I use a little (read very little) grease on the slide rails and all contact points. I don't like oil because it bleeds and leaves the rails dry. I use Militec 1 grease and TetraGun grease pretty much interchangably. Lithium grease from Wally World would work fine also. Kahrs need their lube, even after break in.
 
#11 ·
Can't believe you guys have had so much trouble with UMC. I've fired a few thousand rounds of it through my Glocks and Beretta (45 Auto and 9mm's) and never had ONE bad round. Only ammo I've had a couple of FTFs with has been Blazer.
 
#12 ·
Their batches go in spurts, you can go for years with out any trouble
then hit a bad spot and have several in one box. As others pointed out, I like the questionable ammo for training for a few reasons; it preps me to malfunctions, and it will let me know in a hurry if I have poor trigger control.
 
#13 ·
Well here is a little better picture. Im compared it to the only spent brass I have which was from my Glock. The Glock definetly strikes harder.

Ill hit the range again in a few days and test it out again. My father also bought a bunch of the same ammo and has no issues. If I could get a failure with this ammo in another gun, Id feel much better. Right now my confience is shot.

Kahr is recommending me try another lot but I know for a fact Ive tried two different lots already.
 

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#14 ·
UMC is what I always use at the range. Try some WWBox. If they all shoot fine, and your carry ammo shoots fine, I would just keep shooting the UMC(since you have a butltload), and if you have a FTfire, save them and retry them. You at least field strip it when you clean it, right? Wasnt sure what you meant by saying you havnt taken it apart to clean it. So what do you guys use for range ammo if not UMC or WWB?
 
#18 ·
Too bad you can't compare the primer strike to another of the same ammo from the same gun (should try to save some of it, might want to reload some day!). I bet they look identical. First picture is clearer for me than the second (does your camera have a macro setting? It's the little plant icon).

I would have just as much confidence in the gun as you did before, unless the same trouble manifests itself with another brand of ammo. OTOH, I have zero confidence in UMC (but like Sixto's take on training with it). I usually use WWB. Which reminds me... I really need to get to the range and burn another 100rds in my PM9! :biggrin:
 
#21 ·
Sounds like light primer strikes from your Kahr. Also the macro setting suggestion for your camera should help for much clearer pics in the future.
 
#20 ·
I have an MK9, and although I've been lucky enough to not have any serious problems, I did completely tear it down one day. I was surprised at the amount of brass shavings that had made their way into the firing pin channel. I think it might be possible that if I hadn't cleaned it, in time, it could have caused some problems with the firing pin.

In short.
Detail strip it, clean it, report back.

p.s. for those who like figuring out how things work, it's great to finally see how all the parts fit together.
 
#28 ·
I have an MK9, and although I've been lucky enough to not have any serious problems, I did completely tear it down one day. I was surprised at the amount of brass shavings that had made their way into the firing pin channel. I think it might be possible that if I hadn't cleaned it, in time, it could have caused some problems with the firing pin.
Brass shavings are not a normal condition, check the bottom of your slide at the face of the breach block, it should have a radius not a sharp edge. If it has an edge you can take it down with a common file.

Just so you understand what is happing, when the slide picks up a new cartridge from the magazine on its way to the barrel the next cartridge in the magazine pops up and comes in contact with the slide. If the slide has a sharp edge on it will cause it to shave brass.

If you fire a round and then take out the magazine you will be able to see a scrape on the cartridge that is next in line to be fired. That is where the brass is coming from.
 
#22 ·
Lock,
If you've lost confidence in the gun, I'd be more than happy to give you a $100.00 for it. Heck, I'll even pay the shipping.:image035:

I would never lose confidence in a firearm that had issues with one particular brand of cheap range ammo. If the gun works consistently with quality, SD ammo, I'd trust my life to it. As others have said, the UMC stuff is at the bottom of the pile for quality. Yes, I've shot hundreds of rounds of it and very few problems but when I do, I know where to place the blame.

Hoss

ps -- On your pictures, try getting further back and use zoom on your camera to close in on the subject. Most cameras require a minimum focus length.
 
#23 ·
Failure

I'm going to suggest a detail strip and a good cleaning of the slide, especially the striker. If you don't typically do it, see the local gunsmith, but I would get it done for sure.
 
#24 ·
I had the same problem with my CW9. Over on Glock Talk Home there is a forum for Kahr. On it there is information on how to detail strip the slide. I did this and cleaned the firing pin/striker channel and the problem was solved.

If you don't want to strip the slide there is another way, but not as detailed. Remove the slide. Near the fp spring/striker you will see a little hole. I use my thumb to pull the fp spring back and spray non-chlorinated brake cleaner [with the straw attachment] in the little hole. Brake cleaner will shoot out of both ends so you may want to do this outside. You'll be suprised at the crap that comes out. Now dry it with some compressed air. [canned computer air]

Sorry that I can't post a direct link to the detail strip on glocktalk, but I'm not as computer savy as you younger guys.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Sorry that I can't post a direct link to the detail strip on glocktalk, but I'm not as computer savy as you younger guys.
What a great resource, thanks!

Click here for a link to the PDF.

If that doesn't work, this link points to the thread (but for some strange reason, the PDF link doesn't appear until several posts down...)
 
#26 · (Edited)
I too think that it is a ammo problem. I would suggest that you fire about 100 rounds of your self defense ammo through the gun and if you do not get any FTF's, I would say that would help prove the issue and thus should renew your trust in your firearm. Then you could still shoot the UMC practice ammo at the range and if you get any more FTF's, you can practice clearing your firearm quickly. That would be exellent practice since you have no idea when it will happen.
 
#29 ·
same issue with a twist

ok so I have been to the range a few times with my new Sig p250 and had a similar issue. Rather than start a new thread I thought I'd piggyback this one since the advice may be similar...

The twist is that the FTFs have been with Cor Bon 115gr +P JHP and Cor Bon DPX. That's supposed to be premium stuff! Yet I have had 3 FTFs in under 100 rounds, and NO failures of any kind with my wolf plinking FMJs. All 3 appear to be light primer strikes, although the 1 DPX round that FTF'ed continued to FTF after reloading it and trying again. just "click click click". Must have been a very expensive dud.

So what do y'all think? I'm going to switch to speer GDHP and see if Iget the same issue, but I'm starting to feel a little nervous about the weapon. Any ideas?
 
#30 ·
Simple formula:

Failures with multiple brands/types of ammunition, look to the gun for the problem.

Failures with only one specific brand/type of ammunition, look to the ammo for the problem.

Hoss
 
#31 ·
i traded my pm9 on a glock 26 after only 2 months of ownership. the kahr does not chamber a round very smoothly and if you rake the slide to chamber the round a jam will occur. look at the magazines, poor design. get rid of the gun, it may safe your life if you meet a badguy.
 
#32 ·
My PM9 has operated flawlessly over several hundred rounds. Strangely enough, most of the reviews I've read have been quite positive. There were some QA issues with earlier versions of the PM9; you don't indicate the date your PM9 was manufactured. Did you contact Kahr and give them a chance to correct the flaws in your piece?

It's something of a stretch to paint all PM9's in the same light given your negative experiences. From the extensive reading I've done in various forums, as well as my own personal experiences, the PM9 is a very reliable piece.
 
#36 ·
I do know how to use a gun and I can read! I called kahr and they were less than helpful. I cleaned the gun, lubed the gun, and shot over 400 rounds of winchester white box, remington jhp, ranger talons, and speer gold dots through it. The main problem was the slide not working smoothly and not chambering a round properly. I bought 4 new Kahr magazines, they did not help. I know that you are supposed to lock the slide to chamber but in real life you may not have time to do the "proper" loading in a shootout with a badguy. FYI, the gun was bought brand new on 9/27/08, seriel #IA28XX. I am not bashing Kahr, but I have read more bad reviews on the PM9 than good. Loved the size and concealibility but did not trust the piece. My glock 26, M&P9, and M&P45 have never given me any problems out of the box and you can rake the slide without a jam. Hope this info helps anyone who is interested.
Just my .02.
 
#37 ·
caycebugs said:
look at the magazines, poor design. get rid of the gun, it may safe your life if you meet a badguy.
caycebugs said:
I am not bashing Kahr, but I have read more bad reviews on the PM9 than good.
Yeah, you are. And maybe you need to read more reviews? (I've read far more positive than negative).

Now as to not having time in a gunfight? I certainly hope never to be in one, and DEFINITELY hope never to need to reload. But I do carry spare mags. And I'll train to use the weapon the way the manuf. suggests in this case.

The PM9 is on the edge of size/caliber engineering capabilites IMHO, and the little gun earns a right to be a bit more finicky than the average handgun. But it can be reliable (so I've heard) if one does all one can to keep it running correctly. This will include keeping it properly lubed (one common cause of malf. for these I suspect) and operating it in a way consistant with eliminating known issues (slingshot/vs. slide stop).

And I do have a Glock 26. Great pistol, but hardly comparable (in size) to the PM9.
 
#38 ·
This is the problem with innovation.

You create a novel new tool, in this case, an extremely small 9mm pistol with a design that makes releasing the slide with a full magazine extremely easy while making it nearly impossible with an empty mag. This allows the operator to know without looking, that there's a problem with their magazine, and prevents them from closing the slide on an empty mag. The gun is so small, that operators with even extremely small hands have no problem reaching the release.

Then the end user doesn't want to use your design.

That's life.
 
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