Interested in "classic" guns...have a question(s). 1911 GURUS SOUND OFF!!

Interested in "classic" guns...have a question(s). 1911 GURUS SOUND OFF!!

This is a discussion on Interested in "classic" guns...have a question(s). 1911 GURUS SOUND OFF!! within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; OK...so when funds allow, I want to buy a j-frame revolover, a big frame revolver in a big caliber (.41 Mag, 45 LC , etc.) ...

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Thread: Interested in "classic" guns...have a question(s). 1911 GURUS SOUND OFF!!

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array jwhite75's Avatar
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    Interested in "classic" guns...have a question(s). 1911 GURUS SOUND OFF!!

    OK...so when funds allow, I want to buy a j-frame revolover, a big frame revolver in a big caliber (.41 Mag, 45 LC , etc.)

    I also am wanting a 1911, preferrably 5" Govt model, unknown finish preference. I have had some limited exposure to them and could run one if need be. My question is what are the differences between a "70 series" and an "80 Series"? What are the pro and cons to these two different types.

    Excuse my ignorance...I cut my teeth on new age combat autos, SIG GLOCK, Etc.)
    Friends don't let friends be MALL NINJAS.


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    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    Colt offers the Series 70 and 80. The 80 has a firing pin safety activated by the trigger. Kimber offers a Pre-Series II and Series II. Also a firing pin safety, but this time activated by the grip safety. There is a huge ongoing debate about which is better, and is really a personal decision. The "old school" guys think simpler is better, with less parts to fool with. I've never heard anyone say why the firing pin safety is so great, but I think buyers just accept them. I prefer the simpler style, and won't buy a Colt 80 or a Kimber Series II.
    Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.

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    Member Array M1911A1's Avatar
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    I believe that the Series 80 internal safety device is a sop to Colt's lawyers, since it really doesn't do anything useful.
    Pulling a Series 80's trigger lifts a firing-pin block by means of a monkey-motion linkage, which allows the firing pin to move forward to strike a chambered cartridge's primer. The pistol's trigger pull is, of course, affected by this extra effort and wasted motion.
    In all non-Series-80 pistols, the firing-pin spring is sufficient to do the job, all by itself. The pistol's firing pin is too short to contact a primer, unless it has been given impetus by a full-strength blow of the hammer. As long as its hammer is trapped by the gun's safety, the non-Series-80 pistol won't accidentally go off, even if, when dropped, it falls onto concrete, directly upon its hammer.
    Steve
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    Member Array Evil One's Avatar
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    Semi off topic...
    If you are looking into a 1911 and a large caliber wheel gun, look into a wheel gun in .45acp.
    Its good to consolidate the ammo you will be buying and/or reloading.
    I have a 1911 and a S&W M22 in .45 acp.


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    AEA
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    Springer's a little different.......

    Springfield 1911's use a lightened firing pin and a heavier spring instead of a firing pin safety block.

    So, they are the same as a series 70 Colt in that they have no firing pin block.

    They do have the key lock on the Main Spring Housing that a lot of folks don't care for. That is an easy fix by just changing the Main Spring Housing for a standard one - if you so desire.

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    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    I have had and shot both types of systems. I prefer the series 70 but I have a series 80 Commander that had a wonderful trigger job done by a good smith. You'd never know it was an 80. They can be set up well by someone who knows the platform if it's an issue.
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

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    Distinguished Member Array T Bone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1911A1 View Post
    I believe that the Series 80 internal safety device is a sop to Colt's lawyers, since it really doesn't do anything useful.
    Pulling a Series 80's trigger lifts a firing-pin block by means of a monkey-motion linkage, which allows the firing pin to move forward to strike a chambered cartridge's primer. The pistol's trigger pull is, of course, affected by this extra effort and wasted motion.
    In all non-Series-80 pistols, the firing-pin spring is sufficient to do the job, all by itself. The pistol's firing pin is too short to contact a primer, unless it has been given impetus by a full-strength blow of the hammer. As long as its hammer is trapped by the gun's safety, the non-Series-80 pistol won't accidentally go off, even if, when dropped, it falls onto concrete, directly upon its hammer.
    I've heard of exactly ONE case of a 1911 that did discharged when being dropped (muzzle first, not on the hammer) on concrete. It was from a post of a regular member here several months ago.

    That said, the pistol was an RIA (not a fan here) and the firing pin spring if I recall turned out to be light and 3/4 of an inch shorter than a firing pin spring from another 1911.

    All my 1911's are free of the firing pin safety. But I have heard of decent work being done on weapons with the safety also. I just prefer the original design as I feel it's plenty safe (properly manufactured and maintained).

    Not a guru, just a faithful follower of JMB.
    Regards, T Bone.


    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". Benjamin Franklin

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    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwhite75 View Post
    OK...so when funds allow, I want to buy a j-frame revolover, a big frame revolver in a big caliber (.41 Mag, 45 LC , etc.)

    I also am wanting a 1911, preferrably 5" Govt model, unknown finish preference. I have had some limited exposure to them and could run one if need be. My question is what are the differences between a "70 series" and an "80 Series"? What are the pro and cons to these two different types.

    Excuse my ignorance...I cut my teeth on new age combat autos, SIG GLOCK, Etc.)
    Series 80'FPS,



    Regardless of what you may hear, you can get a good trigger pull on a Series 80 type pistol, many come from the factory with them. If you find a Series 80 you like but don't want the firing pin safety, they can be easily removed.

    Factory trigger pulls on my Series 80s.
    1984 - Govt. MK IV Tu-Tone- 4.75lbs.
    1987 - Govt. MK IV Stainlees - 5.5lbs.
    1988 - Govt. MK IV Ultimate Finish - 4.0lbs.
    2000 - M1991A1 - 4.75lbs.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

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    VIP Member Array jwhite75's Avatar
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    In Court, I don't think I would want to defend why I removed a safety. Especially to get a better trigger pull and feel. I am seriously considering a 1911 in full size for occasional carry and just bhecause I plain like them.
    Friends don't let friends be MALL NINJAS.


    I am just as nice as anyone lets me be and can be just as mean as anyone makes me. - Quoted from Terryger, New member to our forum.

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    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwhite75 View Post
    In Court, I don't think I would want to defend why I removed a safety. Especially to get a better trigger pull and feel. I am seriously considering a 1911 in full size for occasional carry and just bhecause I plain like them.
    Not a thing wrong with any of that.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

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    ADK
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwhite75 View Post
    OK...so when funds allow, I want to buy a j-frame revolover, a big frame revolver in a big caliber (.41 Mag, 45 LC , etc.)

    I also am wanting a 1911, preferrably 5" Govt model, unknown finish preference. I have had some limited exposure to them and could run one if need be. My question is what are the differences between a "70 series" and an "80 Series"? What are the pro and cons to these two different types.

    Excuse my ignorance...I cut my teeth on new age combat autos, SIG GLOCK, Etc.)
    While you're thinking "classic" fighting firearms don't forget the Browning Hi Power ... the design that most "new age combat autos" sought to beat.

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    New Member Array GlenWilbanks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwhite75 View Post
    In Court, I don't think I would want to defend why I removed a safety. Especially to get a better trigger pull and feel. I am seriously considering a 1911 in full size for occasional carry and just bhecause I plain like them.

    I think the only time this would be a factor is in an accidental shooting. If you pulled your gun, pointed it at someone, and pulled the trigger, the gun would fire with or without said safety.

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    Distinguished Member Array T Bone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlenWilbanks View Post
    I think the only time this would be a factor is in an accidental shooting. If you pulled your gun, pointed it at someone, and pulled the trigger, the gun would fire with or without said safety.
    That's a valid point (Welcome to the Forum BTW!). But either way, if someone wants a 1911 without the FPS, they're readily available on factory guns. Some Kimber's (Warrior for example), all Springfield Armory 1911's, Colt Series 70 Reproductions, most higher end 1911's (Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, Les Baer). Tons of choices.
    Regards, T Bone.


    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". Benjamin Franklin

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    Member Array raytracer's Avatar
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    Dan Wessons are also series 70.

    If you want a classic repro, here's one to check out: USFA Automatic 1911™ Military Model

    And, if you're into classics, there's really only one finish to consider: high polish blue!

    Joe

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    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by raytracer View Post
    If you want a classic repro, here's one to check out: USFA Automatic 1911™ Military Model
    Those are good looking pistols, unfortunately they aren't reproductions of any that existed.
    Last edited by OD*; January 18th, 2009 at 08:52 AM.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

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