Newcomer Question - What to consider?

Newcomer Question - What to consider?

This is a discussion on Newcomer Question - What to consider? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hi, I'm new to the site and am looking to take advantage of the collective knowledge of you all to help me along........hope you don't ...

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Thread: Newcomer Question - What to consider?

  1. #1
    New Member Array db9146's Avatar
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    Newcomer Question - What to consider?

    Hi,

    I'm new to the site and am looking to take advantage of the collective knowledge of you all to help me along........hope you don't mind.

    I am looking for a small conceal carry pistol for SD. I saw both the KelTec P3AT and the Ruger LCP (model 371) over the weekend at a gun show. I liked these for the size...easy to carry out of site. What I didn't like was the fact that neither had a manual safety....I know its just a personal hang-up but there, I've admitted it.

    Then I looked at the Bersa 380 CC. Its a bigger small gun and it has a safety. Its just not as easy to pocket as the KelTec or LCP.

    Question is - are there other very small pistols I should consider? Any with a safety?

    Thanks for the input.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Here's something to consider...

    When you're fearing for your life and drawing your gun. Will you remember or be able to flip off that safety you seem to want so badly? The trigger pull of guns without a manual safety is often long and somewhat harder when compared to a gun without. That long pull is the safety. Guns without a safety have internal passive safety systems that prevent the gun from firing until you pull the trigger completely to the rear. If you drop it for example, the gun is made not to fire.

    Not to turn you off the idea of a safety, but the best safety is your brain. Finger off the trigger and the gun won't fire. Think of a revolver, they have no manual safety but have been deemed safe for carry for over 100 years.

    My whole point is the safety, for a new shooter, offers a point of failure to the defensive system he or she employs. If one forgets to remove the safety or doesn't do it in the heat of the moment, they will be in trouble.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array wvshooter's Avatar
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    The guns you have mentioned should only be carried as a BUG (back up gun). The minimum caliber you should carry as a primary weapon is 9mm. There are some 9mm's just as small as the 380 you mention. If small is important look at a Kahr or something similar. Smith and Wessen makes the compact M&P. Its a little chunky but it is small. Stick to 9mm and buy a mouse gun later as a back up if you feel you need it.

    Also, you don't need a safety. Your holster is your safety. If the gun is in the holster the trigger can't be pulled. If the trigger isn't pulled the gun will not fire. I recommend aginst a safety because in a self defense occurance you will do good to get the weapon out and pointed at your attacker. A safety that you can't take off safe because your in panic mode could cost you your life.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wvshooter View Post
    The guns you have mentioned should only be carried as a BUG (back up gun). The minimum caliber you should carry as a primary weapon is 9mm. There are some 9mm's just as small as the 380 you mention. If small is important look at a Kahr or something similar. Smith and Wessen makes the compact M&P. Its a little chunky but it is small. Stick to 9mm and buy a mouse gun later as a back up if you feel you need it.

    Also, you don't need a safety. Your holster is your safety. If the gun is in the holster the trigger can't be pulled. If the trigger isn't pulled the gun will not fire. I recommend aginst a safety because in a self defense occurance you will do good to get the weapon out and pointed at your attacker. A safety that you can't take off safe because your in panic mode could cost you your life.
    While I agree, I will say that any gun is better than no gun. So if a small 380 is all they will carry then that's better than a custom .45 that won't leave the house.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

  5. #5
    New Member Array j3313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by db9146 View Post
    Hi,

    I'm new to the site and am looking to take advantage of the collective knowledge of you all to help me along........hope you don't mind.

    I am looking for a small conceal carry pistol for SD. I saw both the KelTec P3AT and the Ruger LCP (model 371) over the weekend at a gun show. I liked these for the size...easy to carry out of site. What I didn't like was the fact that neither had a manual safety....I know its just a personal hang-up but there, I've admitted it.

    Then I looked at the Bersa 380 CC. Its a bigger small gun and it has a safety. Its just not as easy to pocket as the KelTec or LCP.

    Question is - are there other very small pistols I should consider? Any with a safety?

    Thanks for the input.
    Take a look at the SKKY CPX-1, a 9mm. I have one and very satisfied with it. It shot effectrively everything i fed it with no malfunctions. It does have a manual safety which I understand from SKKY that there is a modification to it as it will inadvertently go to safe. I carry it inside the waist band and it does not print.j3313

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array jframe38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post

    Not to turn you off the idea of a safety, but the best safety is your brain. Finger off the trigger and the gun won't fire.
    The best advice.
    I can understand your notion of wanting a safety as I had anxiety about carrying initially but you have to practice a ton to make it part of the drawing process. Keep looking at all options as the guns are expensive and it would suck if you wind up being unhappy with any purchase.
    Does it absolutely have to be for pocket carry? If not you got some great options i.e. G26, M&P9C, XD9C, very concealable IWB firearms.
    Good luck w/your decision.

  7. #7
    Member Array Reicher's Avatar
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    I agree with the above posts, but I have a Berreta Tomcat 3032. It's a .32 cal with a thumb safety (this not my daily carry gun). It is small enough to fit in a pocket holster. I also have a Kel Tec .380 which is smaller and harder to shoot for the hand [ache].
    "Manners are good when one may have to back up his actions with his life" Robert Heinlein"

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    Member Array Derrin33's Avatar
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    I don't agree with your carry gun being a min of 9mm. The manual safety is nothing to be hung up about. If you practice enough with it, it will become second nature. Remember, carry what you are comfy with. A .380 will do the job. Shot placement is key. Taurus makes a new single stack slim 9mm. S&W makes J-frame revolvers in .38/357. There are plenty to chose from!!
    God Bless America!!

  9. #9
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    If you are going to pocked carry, and don't wish to consider any other type of carry than a P-3AT or LCP is a good choice. While the lack of a manual safety may concern you, it is no different than a revolver. On both guns you have looked at, they have a long, heavy trigger pull. If you decide on one, and are concerned, buy a snap-cap, and carry around the house for a week or 2 and see if the trigger ever fires the gun.

    While some consider the 380 unfit for CCW, I believe it will do it's job if you train with it. Many cops use the P-3at or similar type of guns in 380, or sometimes smaller calibers for back-up, if they thought it to be inadequate to protect their life I would think they would not carry one.


    Z
    An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.

  10. #10
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    You want to know something? The longer I'm on this forum, the less I seem to be able to push my opinions on anyone contemplating carrying a concealed pistol. Simply because I know I'm set in my ways, and what I have works well for me. For the most part, this involves a pistol with no external safety other than the single action models. If I were actually thinking about things like you are, I'd go with a revolver to start, or perhaps a DAK model or SA/DA pistol with decocker just to satisfy your mind. Hang-ups? Well....I guess we all either live with them, or we live without them. All things come in due time. Advice is easily given, but not always taken. We all walk down a narrow hallway with many doors. You are the only one who can reach for the doorknob and open a door. Nobody else can do that for you.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    You want to know something? The longer I'm on this forum, the less I seem to be able to push my opinions on anyone contemplating carrying a concealed pistol. Simply because I know I'm set in my ways, and what I have works well for me. For the most part, this involves a pistol with no external safety other than the single action models. If I were actually thinking about things like you are, I'd go with a revolver to start, or perhaps a DAK model or SA/DA pistol with decocker just to satisfy your mind. Hang-ups? Well....I guess we all either live with them, or we live without them. All things come in due time. Advice is easily given, but not always taken. We all walk down a narrow hallway with many doors. You are the only one who can reach for the doorknob and open a door. Nobody else can do that for you.
    So true. Everything is a compromise. Small guns are light and easy to carry but have limited firepower for the most part while large guns may be harder to conceal and have more weight to carry around.

    The best thing to do is get what you can and will carry just about daily. After that practice with it.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

  12. #12
    Member Array hayley's Avatar
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    Well, your fears are your fears regardless of what anyone says...or what you may feel in the future. In rock climbing, only experience makes you really confident in your gear...and the experience is often counter-intuitive. Just so, DAO pistols or 1911s cocked and locked.

    Anyhow, the CZ Rami has a manual saftey, also the Walther PPK and some S&W pistols. There are others. It just gives you more reason to enjoy shopping around!

  13. #13
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    Another thing that you might consider, does anyone make a pocket holster for the pistol that you are going use for pocket carry.

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    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    welcome

    welcome to the forum and good luck in your quest for edc. (might i recommend a glock.
    (SHERIFF BUFORD T. JUSTICE) "what the hell is
    the world coming too"

    NRA LIFE MEMBER

    U.S. ARMY FT.SILL, OKLA.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array jualdeaux's Avatar
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    If this is your first pistol then I'd recommend going a bit larger. Pocket guns like you listed are great for carry, but they are made to be shot very little. Your range sessions aren't going to be the easiest due to the very small size. Moving up a size or so and you can get pistols that are more comfortable to shoot (so you are willing and able to spend more time practising) and can still be CC'd with minimal effort. You will also be able to take defensive classes that will help increase your skill set. So, if this is your first pistol, I'd personally recommend something the size of a Glock 19 or a Sig 229 to start out with.

    now, if this isn't your first pistol, then yes. the p3AT and the LCP are nice guns to have. They disappear into a pocket holster just fine. With the pocket holster, you will not have to worry about the lack of a safety. The trigger will be covered by the holster. I personally wouldn't carry a pistol with or without a safety if i wasn't going to put it in a holster. A holster is a must.
    Bend the knees, smooth is fast, watch the front sight.

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