The never ending post LOL

The never ending post LOL

This is a discussion on The never ending post LOL within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; My musings on just what makes a " proper " carry gun . With all the " gun recommendation threads lately I did some contemplating ...

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Thread: The never ending post LOL

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    The never ending post LOL

    My musings on just what makes a " proper " carry gun .

    With all the " gun recommendation threads lately I did some contemplating on the quality's that I consider when I select a concealed carry firearm. First thing I consider is as Euclidean so elegantly put it is " formfactor " or ergonomics i.e. does the weapon fit the role and specifically fit Me.
    1. When I naturally grip the weapon does it fit my hand. does it align itself straight down my forearm when gripped properly ( finger outside the triggerguard )

    2. Are the controls within reach without shifting my grip this includes mag release, slide release , safety ( if so equipped ) and trigger. If the controls don't fall naturally under my hand then " Just how bad is it ? " ( on revolvers length of pull is about the only consideration here and remember grips can do wonders for that ) . An example is that for a 1911 I must shift my grip to actuate either the mag release or the slidestop tho i compensate by using my support hand to drop the slide ( via the slidestop not slingshot ) as it rejoins the firing grip. This is a case of not bad at all since my reload technique for autos feeds from the slight shift in grip to drop a mag. On the other hand a large frame glock will not index for me ( the formfactor mentioned above ) i always feel kind of like i am attempting to point a spot marked on a softball when i handle one since the visual cues are the only reference i reliably get from the pistol.

    3. Pointablility hold the pistol with your finger outside the trigger guard and pick a spot on a nearby wall , close your eyes and bring the pistol up to point at the spot, open your eyes and see just how far off the spot the pistol is actually pointing. The " formfactor" should have the firearm indexed close on side to side errors but how is it pointing on up and down? This is important for two reasons 1. low light close up and in a hurry conditions it may be hard to see sights or even your hand, and 2. if you have to manipulate your natural grip in order to aim a pistol it can lead to fatigue, which will encourage you to shoot less as well as contribute to malfunctions ( limp wristing due to fatigue ).

    4. Size and caliber. I realise that with the explosion of " pocket rockets " today size and cal. are not mutually exclusive howeaver for this we wont get into that argument. A large ( service size ) pistol can be carryed by "guns do take a lot of commitment ). So as your standing there with the pistol ask yourself.... Does this gun " fit" when I want to be armed , Will i actually wear the dammed thing , or will i end up " kinda " carrying here you have to honestly evaluate your lifestyle and dress because a large pistol will require changes in both if it is to be a constant companion ( and if its not why bother with the whole carry issue ) . The two areas that concern me with a carry gun are the thickness at the thickest point , and the length of the butt. I can put a lot of slide/barrell out of site inside my pants , but if its too thick it looks like i have a " goiter" in places you normally don't see them LOL and if the butt is too long it makes pointy places in my clothes where i shouldnt have pointy places when i do normal activitys ( like pick something up, be it a kitten or my keys that i just fumbled )

    Now all things being equal you will be better served ( for shootability and accuracy) with a larger pistol howeaver in life seldom are all things equal. I choose all my carry guns ( yes i have a fiew lol ) by the above criteria. My evaluation on the risks i will see throughout that day then will decide just what and how i carry that day . Then i shoot the hell out of them at the range because i know there a nice bullet stop catches any misses. In life misses are caught at worse by an innocent . person and at best by something really expensive that i will have to pay for. With that being said, i compromise because i can , many days i carry a compact pistol in .380 or above ( usualy above ) that i can just tuck away . when i go to a higher risk area ( such as to the "city" then i carry a service size pistol as well as my compact ( like jim curillo i am a fan of the " new york reload " ) . I however live in a rural area and don't visit the city often Your needs are not going to be the same as mine .

    In summation its great to request information but what suits me probably wont work for you with our differing skillsets, environment , wardrobe, and budgets ( i am just a poor ol redneck lol ). Fondle anything that looks the least bit interesting at shops and shows , if at all possible shoot before you buy because it may feel real good untill you press the go button , and once you buy , PRACTICE WITH IT CONSISTENTLY. Tho it is not required in many states ( mine included ) i strongly feel that anyone carrying a firearm for defense should be able , ON DEMAND , to qualify as well or better than what the local police do on the same course(s) of fire .

    Just my thoughts guys feel free to chip inn and sorry for the never ending post lol


  2. #2
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    RR - your thoughts for the day are near incontravertible in essence

    I will say tho that I do not carry/choose a platform based on a risk assessment factor - as I know not when risk may occur - Murphy and all that.

    I therefore elect to go large and heavy - stay with the one gun and try and be as fluent and proficient as I can - still as ever hoping to never employ it for defence. Only (and rare) exception I might make is making R9 a 1ļ if circumstances preclude my usual carry mode.

    Beyond all that, indeed - ''each to his own''. Find and carry what feels best, shoots best, operates best and is reliable - as well as managing to keep the bugger hidden
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Senior Member Array cmidkiff's Avatar
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    Decent ramble on the subject, really :)

    I agree with the whole 'have a gun' philosophy. Something small and light in your pocket is _much_ better than the full size, tricked out high-capacity pistol back in the safe.

    Oh, and don't feel lonely, Glocks feel like a brick to me as well. The grip angle is completely off, and the controls are way to far for my small hands to manage comfortably. Great guns, for people who are comfortable with them, it's just not me.
    Liberty is an inherently offensive lifestyle. Living in a free society guarantees that each one of us will see our most cherished principles and beliefs questioned and in some cases mocked. It's worth it.

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    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    Nice one, only problem is, not much to "argue" about!

    I mean, "discuss."

    Glock? Fits my hand well, grip angle provides me with a good, natural pointing ability. Controls? The one that concerns the most, is quite easy to find.

    The "bang switch."

    mm
    Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.

  5. #5
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    Some good thoughts, without a doubt. I think though the top of the list should be reliability - above all else.

    I like the bigger gun as far as size goes, but not necessarily heavier. E.g. Sig 226R or H&K USP.

    I stated this in another post, but maybe it wouldn't be out of place here also:

    If I had to be in a gunfight with a handgun which one would I want it to be? Well that's the one I ought to carry.

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array fed_wif_a_sig's Avatar
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    Clint Smith (Thunder Ranch) says "Wheel guns are real guns". I guess if I'm not working I usually have a j-frame (now a 340PD) stuffed in an ITP with couple speed loaders/strips. On the job its the Sig 229 (357) but not by choice. If choice were mine, it would be a Commander size 1911.

    However if i KNEW i was headed to a gunfight? Hands down, either my M4 or M1SOCOM.
    Steve
    "Respect all ... Fear none!!!

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Can't really add much but...

    I think it's a good subject matter. It's difficult for me to qualify what I think makes a good carry gun in words, and it's not a specific brand/chambering/etc. I also attest to the idea that one size does not fit all.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Question SOCOM carbine

    Quote Originally Posted by fed_wif_a_sig
    However if i KNEW i was headed to a gunfight? Hands down, either my M4 or M1SOCOM.
    How do you like the SOCOM carbine? I have heard many mixed reviews. Some of them report malfunctions. Can you give us a review of this rifle? Do you mount any optics? If so, what? Is the rifle something with which you can reliably hit out to ranges of 300 meters? Or is this a CQB sort of piece?
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by fed_wif_a_sig
    Clint Smith (Thunder Ranch) says "Wheel guns are real guns".
    The problem is, Clint, at least up to a few years ago, carried and relied on a full size 1911 as his SD gun.

    It's only been lately that Clint has started giving press to revolvers. But the revolvers he's talking about are BIG and of a caliber that starts with a 4.

    Quote Originally Posted by fed_wif_a_sig
    However if i KNEW i was headed to a gunfight? Hands down, either my M4 or M1SOCOM.
    If by chance that's in response to my post, the question was, "If I had to be in a gunfight with a handgun which one would I want it to be?"

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle
    The problem is, Clint, at least up to a few years ago, carried and relied on a full size 1911 as his SD gun.

    It's only been lately that Clint has started giving press to revolvers. But the revolvers he's talking about are BIG and of a caliber that starts with a 4.
    Then again, the autos I carry for personal protection are BIG and of a caliber that starts with a 4... and mostly I have those autos because there's not really much in a revolver like that.

  11. #11
    Assistant Administrator
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    mostly I have those autos because there's not really much in a revolver like that.
    But, but - Euc - what about the BFR? LOL

    Only capacity 5 but hey - they talk loud

    Bit large to carry tho - yet reckon I could at a pinch!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Well I was referring to the reality that there just isn't enough revolvers on the market to satisfy me at the moment.

    At any rate I've settled into the XD well enough I've quit looking for now.

    I'm going to pit that GP100 and the new XD against each other... I really want to find some way to carry both, hehe.

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    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Leaving aside the issue of carrying a "mouse-gun" out of convienience the main requirement of a carry gun is first that I have a good comfortable holster in which to carry it and second that my wardrobe will accomodate good concealment for the gun and holster in question, here in south Florida. Especially during a hot summer. IOW ergonomics is critical. Other than that, requirements are situational in nature. Where am I going that day? Do I have to travel thru "Indian Country" to get there? (lol) Am I going to be in a rural area where police assistance might not be readily available (like on a vacation) or where I might have difficulty with my bearings?

    Is the gun reliable, accurate and of sufficient power?

    Right now, it boils down like this:

    In town (Miami) I usually carry my Glock M27 .40. This is for dining out or shopping with the wife in a fairly nice area. If I'm shopping with her and or eating in an area that passes near to the aforementioned "Indian Country" I bump that up to the Sig P245. If I'm on a trip out of the county either south to the Florida Keys or north to any destination, the H&K USP 45 rides my hip. Always...with any carry gun, goes a spare mag! If on an extended vacation, also goes multiple loaded mags and a couple of spare boxes of ammo, too.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  14. #14
    New Member Array model 25's Avatar
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    Hi guys this is my first real post here. I am old and carried a gun since I was first allowed a ccw at 21 years of age. My avatar tells the story, if you got to fight carry the biggest gun you can.
    When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty

    25

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    A weapon that YOU can shoot well. A weapon that is up to YOUR reliability standards. A weapon that meets YOUR accuracy requirements. A weapon that YOU think is purdie. A weapon that YOU feel comfortable with. A weapon that YOU can empty the mag or cyl. into a COM/torso type target as fast as YOU feel necessary,at the range that YOU feel adaquate. Caliber ???? What do YOU think ?? -------

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