compact/subcompact trigger differences (glock, XD, M&P, HK)...

This is a discussion on compact/subcompact trigger differences (glock, XD, M&P, HK)... within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I don't want to turn this into a flame war, and am not asking for subjective opinions of which is better, etc...just trying to get ...

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Thread: compact/subcompact trigger differences (glock, XD, M&P, HK)...

  1. #1
    Member Array batpot's Avatar
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    compact/subcompact trigger differences (glock, XD, M&P, HK)...

    I don't want to turn this into a flame war, and am not asking for subjective opinions of which is better, etc...just trying to get some facts on the differences between different manufacturers.

    So far the only ones I've shot are a Glock 23 and a Springfield XD40.

    I'm not a fan of the glock trigger. It seems to be the only manufacturer that isn't spring loaded, and is only reset by racking the slide, which means it flicks your finger after every shot. It's not comfortable, but the pull is not bad.

    The XD trigger was mushy, but seemed to be a bit lighter than the glock trigger. It was ok, but...they're even uglier than glocks.

    Now for the rest...
    It seems most other manufacturers are long and heavy, especially so for triggers that lack an inertial safety (e.g. Kahr).

    However, S&W didn't think the inertial safety was enough on their M&P, as it has a 10# pull. Seems excessive to me, but I haven't found one to shoot.
    Does it at least have a shorter pull?
    How does it compare to the XD or Glock?

    Lastly, what about the HK trigger? From what I can tell, it seems to have a really long and heavy first pull, but then has nice SA follow up pulls. How does the LEM compare to the standard DA/SA?
    ...it's going to have to be amazing to justify dropping that much more money though, heh.

    Appreciate the feedback.

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    Member Array Chemistry08's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batpot View Post
    I don't want to turn this into a flame war, and am not asking for subjective opinions of which is better, etc...just trying to get some facts on the differences between different manufacturers.


    Now for the rest...
    It seems most other manufacturers are long and heavy, especially so for triggers that lack an inertial safety (e.g. Kahr).

    However, S&W didn't think the inertial safety was enough on their M&P, as it has a 10# pull. Seems excessive to me, but I haven't found one to shoot.
    Does it at least have a shorter pull?
    How does it compare to the XD or Glock?

    Lastly, what about the HK trigger? From what I can tell, it seems to have a really long and heavy first pull, but then has nice SA follow up pulls. How does the LEM compare to the standard DA/SA?
    ...it's going to have to be amazing to justify dropping that much more money though, heh.

    Appreciate the feedback.
    Post removed, I miss-read the OP!

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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batpot View Post
    However, S&W didn't think the inertial safety was enough on their M&P, as it has a 10# pull. Seems excessive to me, but I haven't found one to shoot.
    Does it at least have a shorter pull?
    How does it compare to the XD or Glock?

    Appreciate the feedback.
    My M&P9c is set at about 6.5 lbs. Not bad at all.
    Don't know about the comparison to Glock or XD.
    At first, it was a little gritty. Has smoothed out nicely.
    But, I am not an expert. Just my experience.
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    Senior Member Array nosights's Avatar
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    I have shot each of these and EVERY one of them has a trigger that will most certainly get the job done! I have not felt that any of them felt entirely poor in any aspect. MY opinion is that the trigger pull is a distant 2nd or 3rd to other more important things to look at...mostly quality and how it fits YOUR hand.

    I know that the factory Glock "trigger job" enhances the pull quality a good deal and my opinion is that is is not all that smooth but is definately lighter than "stock".

    XD trigger doesn't feel to bad to me, but is fairly heavy and long for a stock trigger (I have no experiance with "aftermarket/smith" work on these.)

    The H&K triggers that I have felt varied a bit from gun to gun (as they all do). Overall I think that they have a nice trigger on them.

    I by far have the most experiance with the M&P (close 2nd being Glock) triggers. I have experianced them smoothing out nicely after a few hundred+ rounds. The triggers have varied from gun to gun but overall they have been crisp and smooth, with about a 6-7# pull (average for most brands stock triggers). I have had 3 out of the 4 M&P's that I have owned have trigger jobs done to them. This is NOT due to not liking the factory trigger, it is due to my always wanting to make everything better and the fact that I can never leave well enough alone.

    Earlier this week I was at the range and 2 others happened to be there that I shoot IDPA with. We shot each others guns and I felt that the XD 45 one of them was shooting (factory trigger) was the worst I shot that day but overall it was fine. Then I shot a few Glocks with a few having had Glocks lighter trigger bar and they shot much better than stock. Then I let them shoot my M&P 45 FS with trigger job and one of them actually said they thought it was the best trigger short of a 1911 that they had ever shot. The other actually was suprised the the gun went off when it did because it engaged so smoothly! She turned, started packing up her things and when I asked her why she was leaving so soon she said, "I saw one new M&P 45 left on the shelf and I am gonna go buy it!"

    I am not saying that one is definately better than the others...it really comes down to personal preferance. If you are this concerned about triggers then you should really look at what gun is the most receptive to trigger work because you most likely won't be happy with the stock trigger anyway.
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  6. #5
    Senior Member Array BamaSteve's Avatar
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    I think my M&P has a 6.5# pull.....correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the MA compliant ones have a 10# pull
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    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    I like the Glock trigger, fastest resets out of all your posted options. I do like HK guns, but hate the trigger, the light LEM is great though if you can get that. Very smooth.

    The bite on a Glock trigger is the trigger safety. You can shave it down so it recesses into the trigger face when you pull it to the rear, this doesn't affect the safety of the weapon at all, and the trigger safety will still prevent trigger movement unless pulled. In fact this was recommended by a Miami PD Armorer a few years back.
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    VIP Member Array JAT40's Avatar
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    The Mass. M&Ps have the 10lb trig, it smells but you get used to it.
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    Member Array batpot's Avatar
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    Thanks for the comments...
    Right you guys are on the M&P 6.5# trigger...misread their website last night

    I know the right answer is "the one that feels the best" but I'm having a hell of a time finding an M&P, or P2000, or Rami, I can actually shoot, so I'm trying to find the best balance between my favorite attributes of the ones I have fired.

    I'm a big fan of Sig ergos and actions, but unfortunately they're still working out the bugs on the P250, and it's not available in subcompact yet anyway.

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    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batpot View Post
    Thanks for the comments...
    Right you guys are on the M&P 6.5# trigger...misread their website last night

    I know the right answer is "the one that feels the best" but I'm having a hell of a time finding an M&P, or P2000, or Rami, I can actually shoot, so I'm trying to find the best balance between my favorite attributes of the ones I have fired.

    I'm a big fan of Sig ergos and actions, but unfortunately they're still working out the bugs on the P250, and it's not available in subcompact yet anyway.
    The HK with LEM will likely be impossible to feel until you buy it and have it installed in your gun. So, i'd remove that option myself since you have to buy it and find out if it works for you.
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    Member Array Napa Nick's Avatar
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    I have an XD9sc with a Powder river precision kit in it. It has one sixteenth inch take up, trigger stroke is one eighth with one sixteenth overtravel and a three sixteenths of an inch reset. It is just about the same as my Glock with a Ghost rocket trigger installed. Any of the guns you suggested, with the exception of the Kahr, can have there triggers worked to be anything you want. Buy what fits your hand and points naturally, I shoot the XD's are.

  12. #11
    Member Array airbornerangerboogie's Avatar
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    I carry either a 1911 compact or commander size pistol because I hated the long trigger pull and reset of the glocks and XD's.
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  13. #12
    Member Array Rivers's Avatar
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    You can get the P2000 or P2000sk with the LEM trigger installed at the factory. That's one of the standard variations, as is DA/SA, etc. I have my P2000sk with the lighter springs in the LEM trigger, dropping the 8# pull to less than 5#.

    The LEM is designed to be carried with a round already chambered. There is normally no external safety lever. To fire a round, you simply point and shoot, with the slide having already been racked as the round was chambered. Subsequent trigger pulls are identical. Never judge the LEM trigger pull without having racked the slide as it is only functional that way.

    The LEM has a long pull to engagement (that's the element of safety) with a crisp release and a reasonably short reset. Once you get used to it, it's kind of tough to get enthusiastic about DA/SA triggers and external safeties. They just seem so "clunky" and over-complicated. The LEM is probably the most simple and straightforward trigger design available. Remember though, it is a combat trigger, not a match trigger. It's intended to help you keep things under control when your heart is racing and you can't afford any mistake.

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array bklynboy's Avatar
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    I have an HK USP with a LEM trigger. I prefer it to the Glock or XD. The nice thing about HK's is that there are many varients of triggers, LEM, DAO or SA/DA's. The SA/DA's can also be carried cocked and locked. An HK USP in any varient can be switched to one of the other varients.

    The LEM does take some getting used to, but I much prefer it to the HK pure DAO trigger. Since I do not like a safety on my carry guns and found the DA pull on the HK too long and hard, I opted for the LEM and have been very pleased. I have 3k rounds through it without a hiccup.

    After I bought my USP I subsequently shot an S&W MP and find that I like its trigger better than the LEM. I shoot the MP a bit better than the HK and it costs less.

  15. #14
    rek
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    M&P vs Glock

    I've carried a Glock 27 generation 2.5 with the 5.5# trigger for many years and have never had a compaint about the feel. I recently traded my S&W 908 for the M&P 9c with the MA 10# trigger which was extremely heavy and actually measured 15.5# and I gave up firing it after 50 rounds. People I know who live outside Massachusetts have told me even their 6.5# models have measured as high as 10#. Seems S&W is in such a hurry to meet the demand that they are doing little if any "tweaking" of the trigger before they leave the factory.

    The good news is that a trigger job reduced it to 5.25# and it is now not only a pleasure to shoot, but to my surprise is smoother than my Glock. It also feels better in my hand with nicely molded stippling on the backstrap vs. the Glock's square checkering. Only time will tell if the M&P will be as reliable over time as the Glock which now has over 3000 rounds through it.

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