Old and slow
This is a discussion on Old and slow within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; As soon as I read your post, what immediately came to mind was S&W 642 revolver with Crimson Trace grips. Only weighs 15oz. and you ...
February 21st, 2009 02:44 PM
As soon as I read your post, what immediately came to mind was S&W 642 revolver with Crimson Trace grips. Only weighs 15oz. and you forget it's in your pocket.
Now, I'm going to give you a scolding.........I'm 64, and to me 1945 only represents the year I was born. I don't let it stop me from doing anything, and you shouldn't either. Don't use age as an excuse not to improve or learn new things. If you still can't hit a target, you need more practice and a better teacher! Good luck!
Too light for heavy work, too heavy for light work!
February 21st, 2009 03:52 PM
Great idea! I'd add to find an instructor. A good shooter may not be a good instructor, teacher, or trainer.
You are right, I should just ask one of the seasoned IDPA shooters to spend an afternoon with me.
Find a seasoned shooter that is also an instructor. An experienced instructor is important for the student.
February 21st, 2009 05:01 PM
I'm somewhat older and wear trifocals; also effectively blind in one eye. I have found a version of point shooting in which I completely ignore the rear sight and just point and look past the front sight works quite well with a small, but slightly larger gun than yours. I think a combination of: a) learning to point shoot; b) finding a gun you can point shoot with--it might not be the one you have if that is too small for your hand; c) getting your prescription checked might help you out.
Now, back to the eyeglasses. While many people have great luck with the type of variable prescription glasses you are wearing, others find that traditional bi or tri-focals work better. There are also combinations of things you can do like contacts for distance and reading glasses for desk work--if you can still see the dash board without an intermediate range lense. Or bi-focal contacts for distance and intermediate range and reading glasses for actual reading.
So, get your eyes checked, consider a slightly larger gun such as the Bersa, and practice point shooting. ALSO-- while you are practicing at 5 yards, remember that the real deal is likely to go down at a closer range, maybe 3-9 feet or less. You are probably just going to shove the gun forward and pull off the shots without any sighting. It will be direct contact or very close to direct contact. Even your small gun and modest aim are good to go for that.
Lasers, I hate when the guy in the next lane uses them. The dang light scatters back into my eyes. Why you need a laser at 15 feet is beyond me. And past that, I count myself lucky if I can still see the target. *exaggerating a tad*
February 21st, 2009 07:42 PM
I also wear bifocals. Can't read without them and can't see distance without them either. But the weird thing is, I see the sights best without my glasses! They aren't really clear but just a little better. My days of precise target shooting are long gone. However I simply put together a blurry sight picture and let fly.
I would suggest that you look into a gun with better sights. I used to carry a J frame but the front sight simply dissappeared as I got older. Now it's a Glock 26 w/ night sights. Its a huge improvement!
I also find that small guns are very difficult to shoot well. I have small hands but I can't get a good grip on the smaller pocket pistols. They just wiggle around too much.
February 21st, 2009 09:01 PM
I expect that the Kel-Tec P3AT is so small and light that you can not develop the leverage you need to pull the trigger without flopping the muzzle all over. It does not take much movement with a short barrel to be off point of intended aim.
I guess you will have to wear suspenders and carry a heavier handgun.
February 21st, 2009 10:27 PM
Have Fun and Shoot Straight !!
February 22nd, 2009 09:15 AM
Stuart, I was just about to post my discovery of something MANY folks already know. A S&W snubby is the best thing since sliced bread. After trial and error w/a few different guns, I took my wife's 642 out and ran 50 rounds through it. Amazing accuracy at 12 yds plus for 1 7/8" barrel. Practiced a few wheels w/out my extra eyes, not as good but still very effective. I bought a 638 on Saturday and shot it yesterday and I'm tickled pink. Ugliest little gun you can find and I'm extremely satisfied. The balance of what you have in your armory, what's too big, bulky for carry, enough fire power, etc is something we all wrestle with. I'm satisfied that a 38 +P is something nobody wants to be on the bad end of and if you really want, you can go J frame in 357 though expect a bark and a bit of bite as well w/such a small frame. And a final note; I read a comment a few days ago by somebody on this forum saying "if you don't have a snubby in your collection....that ain't right" or something to that effect. He was right. Go handle one, if you can find one these days... You'll be able to take your time looking for the next one when you've got something solid in your back pocket.
What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about?
February 22nd, 2009 09:22 AM
Forgot a couple of points for the snubby. Shooting a 38 for plinking and practice is a reasonbly cheap proposition. Wadcutters are cheap and tamed down. A 380 is expensive; bang for the buck so to speak. If you start reloading, 38/357 is much more practicle than 380. As far as old and slow, one well placed +P should let you walk away, not run and fire again.
What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about?
February 22nd, 2009 01:37 PM
Find a range that rents guns, try several,one should fit. Run the target out to 21ft
concentrate on the front sight,put it center of mass, and pull the bang switch. Works for me out to 21ft. I am older than you.
February 22nd, 2009 05:13 PM
I don't think your problem is seeing the sights. My guess is your problem is trigger control. Do a lot of dry firing, including movement, using your laser to tell you how you are doing. You might also get one of those charts that tell you what you are doing to the trigger by where you are missing.
February 22nd, 2009 10:22 PM
Right now you are shooting "OK" enough for many of the self-defensive scenarios that you might encounter.
Worse than some but, better than some others.
Your honest desire to improve is what is important.
The P3AT is (of course) not the most ideal firearm for SD but, if that is all you can cope with right now then it is what it is.
Which is the one you're most likely to have on your person at this point in time.
Try adding a little bit of dynamic tension to your shooting.
Use A Firm Grip & Push Forward with your gun hand while simultaneously pulling back with your support side hand/arm.
Shop on Ebay for a gripmaster.
Search "gripmaster" and that sure will help you out with your trigger control. They are very inexpensive.
Buy a "Light" or a "Medium" gripmaster to start.
That should cover you for shooting .380 and will help allow your index/trigger finger to move completely independently of the remainder of your gun hand.
As a plus it will also improve your trap/skeet.
Trace around somebody onto scrap cardboard and Magic-Marker in a brightly colored dot approximately 4" diameter Center Of Mass.
Then pick an aiming spot like the lower edge of that dot.
That should be your intended target.
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
February 22nd, 2009 11:10 PM
= Experienced and Cautious.
Originally Posted by Stuart
I don't have anything to add to your pistol and sight questions. Some excellent responses above.
You are doing fine. There is a lot more to life then shooting a million points in IDPA. If you are unhappy with your skills, then improvement at your own pace and without ego is a great idea. Consistency from shot to shot, day to day, and small incremental improvements are the only pointers I've got. I am a big believer that one does not have to go out and buy anything to improve.
February 23rd, 2009 12:17 AM
A KelTec PF-9 is only slightly larger and heavier than the P-3AT, but the sights are so much easier to use with 'old' eyes.
"If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan
February 23rd, 2009 12:27 AM
A Kahr PM9 might be another choice. Or, the Kahr P380 when you can find one (just coming out). Nothing is as small as the KelTec P3AT, other than perhaps a Rohrbaugh, but then you'll likely have the same accuracy issues.
Can't see why a KelTec P11 would pull your pants down. A belt or suspenders ought to solve that, once and for all. Or, perhaps slightly different pants are called for, given your fit.
I've had KelTec P3AT, KelTec PF9, Kahr PM9. By far, the PM9 beat 'em all in the accuracy department, at least for me.
For me, the PM9 was reasonably easy to shoot well. The balance is very good, for such a tiny gun. Particularly with the extended magazine, keeping a full grip on the gun helped tremendously. Even shooting on the move was helped.
In the end, it comes down to practice, but the firearm contributes a lot to the accuracy equation. Try a Kahr PM9, to see if it'll work for pocket carry. Or, if that's too large, the Kahr P380.
Now, if pocket carry isn't going to do it, then you might consider an alternative mode of carry. Perhaps, SmartCarry or IWB/tuck. You might speak with a custom holster maker willing to make some accommodations, someone who can do a fitting with you. That might make all the difference.
February 23rd, 2009 01:52 AM
Lasergrips on your carry piece is he best route, at least until your accuracy improves significantly, Even then, though, remember that in a defensive situation, you'll be under a lot of stress, which will make your aim worse. Lasergrips will make it a lot easier to hit what you need to hit in those situations. I currently have a set on my Glock 26, which is a gun that I use for either back up, or as my primary when I can't dress to cover my XD.
As far as a recommended carry gun, I would go with either an XD or a Glock, in whatever size and caliber that you feel appropriate. I have both an XD 45, and several Glocks (19 and 26 in 9mm, and a 30 in 45 ACP). I prefer the XD, as I like the addition of the grip safety, but the Glocks are great as well. Both the AD and the Glock are well made pistols, light weight, reliable, and accurate. You have a variety of sizes. And as I said, my Glock 26 does fine as a pocket pistol. Perhaps too thick for a lot of people, but I dress in Dockers for work, and the G26 disappears just fine. When I finally add the 30 to my CCW, I'll switch to that for my pocket pistol. I prefer 45 ACP now.
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