Seeking 9mm reassurance - Page 2

Seeking 9mm reassurance

This is a discussion on Seeking 9mm reassurance within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The incident you related is an excellent recommendation for the 9mm. One round to the abdomen and the police officer was out of the fight. ...

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Thread: Seeking 9mm reassurance

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array GentlemanJim's Avatar
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    The incident you related is an excellent recommendation for the 9mm. One round to the abdomen and the police officer was out of the fight.

    Jim


  2. #17
    jfl
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    Distinguished Member Array jfl's Avatar
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    A few years ago a NYPD responding to a domestic got shot almost poiunt blank range in the face with a .357; not only she survived, but went back to work.

    I like 9mm because it is widely available, reasonably cheap for practice and not too big.
    The .45 is also readily available but a 17 shot mag is not common, and I'll take the number of rounds over the energy, especially facing multiple threats.

    The difference between a 9mm and a .40 is negligible; a G-26 with a G-19 barrel has better ballistics than a G-27.

    So don't spend more energy sweating it, as all said shot placement is the thing, practice, practice and practice; even practice with some body behind you holding you by the shoulder and shaking you ...
    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
    The second rule: "Bring enough gun"

    jfl
    (NRA Life Member/Instructor - GOA - IDPA - GSSF - ex-IHMSA)

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array fatboy97's Avatar
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    In my mind the object is to stop someone from killing me or someone in my family... so to that end I want to stop that person, or persons from doing that... I don't have to kill them to accomplish this, I just want to stop them or disable them... again to that end - shot placement, shot placement, shot placement... not bigger caliber, bigger caliber, bigger caliber.

    Although, personally I prefer to have variety... P226 (.40) and a GP100 (.357) are my primary home defense weapons, but I love carrying my Glock 26 for carry... and if that means emptying my magazine of 10+1 and reloading, so be it, but I will be sure to put those in the place I'm aiming at... hopefully... that's why I practice one every two weeks.
    Be Observant and Be Safe.

    Current: S&W 442, Springfield XD9sc, XDm9, and Glock G26, G19, G23C,
    and SIG P226-40 TT, and Ruger GP-100, and Beretta 92FS
    Former: Taurus 92SS, SIG P220 TT, S&W 360, SIG P239-40, Ruger 22/45 MKII

  4. #19
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    might I remind you of the story of Phineas Gage:

    Phineas Gage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    On September 13, 1848 Gage was foreman of a work gang blasting rock while clearing the roadbed for a new rail line outside the town of Cavendish, Vermont. After a hole was drilled into a body of rock, one of Gage's duties was to add gunpowder, a fuse, and sand, then tamp the charge down with a large iron rod. Possibly because the sand was omitted, around 4:30 PM:

    the powder exploded, carrying an instrument through his head an inch and a fourth in circumference, and three feet and eight inches in length, which he was using at the time. The iron entered on the side of his face, shattering the upper jaw, and passing back of the left eye, and out at the top of the head.

    iron was 1-1/4 inches in diameter (not "circumference") and was three feet seven inches long. Weighing 13-1/4lb (6 kg), it was said to have landed some 80 feet (25 m) away.

    Amazingly, Gage spoke within a few minutes, walked with little or no assistance, and sat upright in a cart for the 3/4-mile ride to town. Though physicians Edward H. Williams and John Martyn Harlow found him weak from hemorrhage, he had a regular pulse of about 60 and was alert and coherent.
    The brain has surprisingly few blood vessels.

  5. #20
    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Where is that pic of the Indiana meth head BG that had multiple hits from OO buck and various other handgun loads? I think that BG literally had close to 100 holes in him from the waist up but was able to fire a revolver and reload multiple times before finally expiring.

    The main thing from that incident is to remember is that even OO buck is not a 100% stopper. I'd bet that we may have a service member or two here that have seen enemy combatants take a few hits from .50 BMG before going down.

    As long as you keep your 9mm full of +p or +p+ quality HP's you are well armed.
    Why Ike, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!

  6. #21
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    Another thing to consider in this also is what type of ammo was the BG using? Many if not most thugs are too cheap to buy quality defensive ammo. He may very likely have been using FMJ ammo.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
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    When I carry my Glock 19, I have 16 rounds in the gun.

    If that's undergunned, I'm staying home.
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    I prefer a larger permanent wound cavity, thus the 10mm and .45 have an advantage do to larger expanded bullet diameters over the 9mm. However this advantage cannot be quantified nor measurable but the advantage clearly exists.

    That said, I have 3 carry guns. A 9mm H&K P7 (8+1), a 10mm 1911 (8+1), and a 45 Auto Glock 30(10+1). I carry them in rotation with equal trust. I would not waste money or time nor carry something that I have no confidence in.

    Truth in the matter is that most gunfights happen within 6-10 feet. At that point, the terminal ballistics of combat handguns don't matter. If you put a 9mm and a .45 in the same spot, the results will be the same for the most part. There are variables and that's why you shoot more than one round.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9mm10mmamen View Post
    But how can I retain full confidence in the 9mm round as a self defense choice when it failed so miserably at such close range?
    Based on a single incident, you're prepared to ditch an entire caliber?

    You're right that: larger holes, more of them, and the specific striking of the CNS/heart zones of the body all contribute to quick immobilization and stopping of an attacker. Nothing else really will.

    Basically, most folks rely on training and a reasonable caliber, with a firearm that has reasonable capacity.

    But, to have "full confidence" that every situation will be stopped by you with a given firearm and bullet, or that a specific bullet should have absolutely created an instant stop in this specific instance? IMO, that won't ever happen. Sorry. Handgun "stopping power" is low, relatively speaking. It's entirely likely it will be for as long as we use bullets.

    That being said, my carry arms of choice: CZ P-01 9mm semi-auto, with 14+1 and 2x14 extra; NAA Guardian .380ACP with 6+1, and 2x6 extra. Enough? Perhaps not.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  10. #25
    Senior Member Array Beans's Avatar
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    Just look at our military they determined that the 9mm was superior to the 45 ACP.

    It must be so, because they did it.

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    Caliber

    People have been killed with single rounds of .22short and have survived .44 magnum wounds. Read this, survivor of a .357jhp to the heart:
    - official website of THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT
    Or this survivor of a couple of 12ga slugs, one to the face
    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...56C0A960948260
    If they survived those shootings, there is no such thing as stopping power. Enjoy your 9mms. Great choices.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array PaulJ's Avatar
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    lets face it: There is a limit to what a reasonable size handgun can do. You can't load 12ga shot gun shells into anything concealable. Among handgun rounds, the difference are maybe a factor of 2-3 if you look at "plain ballistic". Sounds like a lot, but in "real live" if doesn't make a big enough difference. 9mm seems to be the best trade-off among handgun rounds when cost, size (number of rounds per magazine) and stopping power are considered.

    Personally I carry .40. But I keep thinking about switching to 9mm because it is cheaper, usually gives me one more round and a bit easier to shoot.
    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. (Thomas Jefferson)

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array sass20485's Avatar
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    Well shot placement is key. But it would seem the deputy who was shot was taken out of the fight and the BG was able to get away. Isn't that what we really care about, being to halt the attack and get away?

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron8903 View Post
    Remember shot placement, I dont matter if you shot with a .44 mag
    it you dont hit a vital you dont die right a way.
    Agreed.

    Many experts carry 9mm and the modern SD ammo available is more that sufficient to do the job IF you do yours!

    Practice - Practice - Practice!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  15. #30
    Member Array Jim Downey's Avatar
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    9mm? Perfectly fine, and I have no qualms about being 'undergunned' when I carry one. Nor a .38, for that matter. I do my job, they'll do theirs.

    That said, I do prefer either a .357 Sig or .45.

    Jim D.
    ___________________________________

    Ballistics by the inch: "Four guys, two chronographs, and 8,500 rounds of ammo."

    Like Science Fiction? Read *or listen to* my novel, Communion of Dreams, for free.

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