Kahr PM9?

[T Bone]

Ive been researching conceal carry guns for a while now and have bought a couple so far. I looked into Kahrs and KelTecs. I feel the KelTecs are higher quality more reliable pistols but I hate thier triggers, a DOA trigger is suppose to be long and heavy but the Keltecs trigger is just way way way to long in mine and many others opinions.

I like the Kahrs trigger and the over all feel of the gun, it feels like a decent gun. I was damn near serious about buying one until I was at a gunshow with my father and asked him his opinoin on the Kahr PM9. He picked it up, looked it over for a while, working the action and dry-fired it. He finally said its junk and dont mess with it.

He's been colecting and shooting guns for about 40 years, and owns more guns than I can count. mostly auto pistols. He is a walking encyclopedia of automatic guns covering guns made from WW1 to present day. I didnt question his opinion, hes never steered me wrong before in a gun purchase, I saw no reason to argue with him as much as I wanted to like the gun.

I ended up going with a S&W Jframe 638 and a Sig P239. Im now looking into an HK USPcompact.

Some encyclopedias are wrong...

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[pirate]

Ive been researching conceal carry guns for a while now and have bought a couple so far. I looked into Kahrs and KelTecs. I feel the KelTecs are higher quality more reliable pistols

Kel Tec higher quality and more reliable than a Kahr? You have to be kidding! To each his own I guess and you certainly have a right to your opinion and I respect that, but Kahr's are a couple notches above Kel Tec's in every way. How am I basing my opinion? I own or have owned several examples of Kahr and Kel Tec handguns and I have fired 1000's of rounds from these guns over the years. I owned a retail gun business and sold these guns. I have done a bit of smithing on them and dealt with the manufacturers technical staff on repairs and warranty work. Kahr's while certainly more expensive than KT's they are well worth the cost difference. There is a reason Kel Tec's sale at the price point they do....while they are good innovative designs in general they are made of lower quality materials overall and Kel Tec's are not as carefully hand fitted and polished on the internals as higher end guns like the Kahr. Kahr's are not perfect, no guns are but they are far superior to Kel Tecs. Several years ago when I had my 01-FFL and retail gun store one of their sales reps told me they expected approximately 15-20 percent of their guns to come back for repairs or factory service and they considered this exceptable because they keep their pricing inexpensive compare to other manufacturer's. As I stated befor I personally own or have owned several Kel Tec's and they are generally serviceable small CCW handguns, and I like them overall. I have sent quite a few back to the manufacturer for repairs and have spent a good deal of time on the phone with their technical staff. They will tell you straight up that the reason their products sell at the price point they do is they don't spend a lot of time hand fitting and finishing internals. They have great customer service but they get to many opportunities to repair their guns IMO. This is factual information directly from Kel Tec so take what you will from it. I certain do not see how you or anyone else can pick up a handgun that they no nothing about and look at it for a few seconds and come to the conclusion that its junk or not a good gun without dissembling the gun or shooting it (except Hi Points maybe, LOL). As far as "curb appeal" KT's do not look anywhere near as good as far as fit and finish on the outside as a Kahr, even the CW series Kahrs and all you have to do is look inside to see what the real difference are. KT's are good guns for the money but not up to Kahr's standards by a long shot.

No offense ment but if your father is a walking encyclopedia of automatic guns as you say, he needs to be undated to the latest eddition. As you can see from the other response to this post the general consenses here is kahrs are one of the best CCW options on the market today and for good reason.

[flymu2b]

Kahrs are built to very tight and exacting specifications, they employ what is know as sacraficial wear during the initial operation, this is one of the main reasons for the 200 round break in (mandatory with any new firearm in my opinion). I own both a PM-9, and a P-45, they are each one of the best hand guns I have ever shot, the accuracy is outstanding, they are 100% reliable, and most important compact enough to carry at all times. Buy the PM-9, you will never regret adding this little powerhouse to your collection, keep it very clean, and well lubricated, and it won't let you down.

[1911luver]

Thanks guys I'm waiting on my local shop to get another PM9 in,should be here Monday or Tuesday. I've always liked Kahr Arms guns just never owned shot one before.

[newmenu]

Kel Tec higher quality and more reliable than a Kahr? You have to be kidding! To each his own I guess and you certainly have a right to your opinion and I respect that, but Kahr's are a couple notches above Kel Tec's in every way. How am I basing my opinion? I own or have owned several examples of Kahr and Kel Tec handguns and I have fired 1000's of rounds from these guns over the years. I owned a retail gun business and sold these guns. I have done a bit of smithing on them and dealt with the manufacturers technical staff on repairs and warranty work. Kahr's while certainly more expensive than KT's they are well worth the cost difference. There is a reason Kel Tec's sale at the price point they do....while they are good innovative designs in general they are made of lower quality materials overall and Kel Tec's are not as carefully hand fitted and polished on the internals as higher end guns like the Kahr. Kahr's are not perfect, no guns are but they are far superior to Kel Tecs. Several years ago when I had my 01-FFL and retail gun store one of their sales reps told me they expected approximately 15-20 percent of their guns to come back for repairs or factory service and they considered this exceptable because they keep their pricing inexpensive compare to other manufacturer's. As I stated befor I personally own or have owned several Kel Tec's and they are generally serviceable small CCW handguns, and I like them overall. I have sent quite a few back to the manufacturer for repairs and have spent a good deal of time on the phone with their technical staff. They will tell you straight up that the reason their products sell at the price point they do is they don't spend a lot of time hand fitting and finishing internals. They have great customer service but they get to many opportunities to repair their guns IMO. This is factual information directly from Kel Tec so take what you will from it. I certain do not see how you or anyone else can pick up a handgun that they no nothing about and look at it for a few seconds and come to the conclusion that its junk or not a good gun without dissembling the gun or shooting it (except Hi Points maybe, LOL). As far as "curb appeal" KT's do not look anywhere near as good as far as fit and finish on the outside as a Kahr, even the CW series Kahrs and all you have to do is look inside to see what the real difference are. KT's are good guns for the money but not up to Kahr's standards by a long shot.

No offense ment but if your father is a walking encyclopedia of automatic guns as you say, he needs to be undated to the latest eddition. As you can see from the other response to this post the general consenses here is kahrs are one of the best CCW options on the market today and for good reason.

I was not basing my opinion on the kahr on real shooting experience like I was the keltec. Ive shot keltecs but not any kahrs. It just seemed to me that the keltec would be a more reliable gun for the mere fact it was not as tight a gun as the kahr. its the lack of tightness that makes as well as alot of other things, that make ak47s and glocks the most reliable guns in the world.

but, if the kahr loosens up and breaks in really well after 200 rounds then I could see how it could be a good realiable gun too. they definately have a better trigger on them for sure. Im glad to have read your feedback Pirate, you have a good perspective having owned and shot both guns. Ill tell my pops to do some more research on kahrs. they may really be some darn good feeling and shooting guns after they get broke in, they just dont feel so good brand new never shot IMO.

[pirate]

newmenu, please understand that I am not trying to nit pic your post but I can't understand how through just a quick visual inspection of a Kahr and Kel Tec you could come to the conclusion that KT is the superior more reliable gun. Its like looking at a Neon and a Lexus. The fit, finish and general visual appeal of a Kahr is vastly superior. So what are you basing your insight on? Just curious to know. Reliabilty can not be determined through visual inspection, the way I determine reliabilty of a firearm is through extensive trial and error with many types of ammo and with several 100 rounds fired through the gun before it is carry worthy. Curtainly beauty is in the eye of the beholder but even the visual appeal of Kahr guns look so much better its difficult for me to understand your mind set on this. Plastic framed pistols are not really attactive when compaired to traditional steel framed and wood griped guns but KT's are not attractive even for plastic fantastics. The plastic frames/grip on KT products often have rough, sharp edges and seams and they just look inexpensive (I did not say cheap looking) compaired to Kahrs...or Glock, S&W M&P, XD or any other quality manufacturer. I certainly think the real beauty is in the function more than the form when it comes to CCW guns, but when comparing these two guns the Kahr not only looks well made, they function that way too IMO.

[Danimal]

Apples to Lobster.

[newmenu]

im pretty well convinced now that the kahr is a superior gun to a keltec but dont underestimate the ability to gauge a guns quality my inspection. I dont just look at a gund and dry fire it and formulate my opinions right then and there.

I pick up a gun and hold it firmly and in one hand and two, I engadge the mag drop button, I dry fire it sa and da, I rack the slide over and over again, quicly and slowly, I rack the slide and work the slide release button. I look at the finish, the barrel, the magazines, the extractor and the sights. I take note of its weight to size ratio, the price of the gun, the price of the magazines. Ill then ask the shop keeps what thier opinions are, how many they sell, how many they see sold back to them used and why.

I dont just look at them, I look at every angle of them, under the hood, I sit behind the wheel, I start the engine and listen to it idle. I look at every aspect of the gun inside and out and do everything besided put it in drive and and drive it away. Im sure anyone can tell the difference in quality between a neon and a viper after haveing done all that without have to go so far as actually putting the car in drive and leaving the parking lot.

[newmenu]

If you blindfold me and put to 98% condition Browing Hi Powers in front of me, both the exact same design, varient, fit, finish, and caliber. the only difference between the two is that one is made in belgium, assembled in belgium and the other is made in belgium and assembled in portugal, I can tell you which is which every time.

Im not saying kahrs are bad, Im just saying keltecs are not the apples to the kahrs lobster.

for that matter neither one is lobster. Id say the kahr is more like lumpfish and teh keltec is salmon, but its trigger is BLOWfish.

[SIXTO]

This thread has turned pretty darn comical.

[Wasabi]

This thread has turned pretty darn comical.

+1

[jwhite75]

Seriously....is gecko45 trying to sneak back on???