Starting to leave out the BUG

This is a discussion on Starting to leave out the BUG within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Blue - I think folks often wonder - and my thinking is - we have decided to carry. Main decision. Why? Because we choose to ...

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Thread: Starting to leave out the BUG

  1. #16
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    Blue - I think folks often wonder - and my thinking is - we have decided to carry. Main decision.

    Why? Because we choose to take responsibility for that one (remote) time we may need it. I think therefore if we ''double up'' it is only reinforcing our determination to succeed and not become a victim.
    Chris - P95
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    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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  3. #17
    Member Array chiefs-special-guy's Avatar
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    of course a bug is a good idea, but it is a good idea like losing weight, quitting smoking, etc. honored in the breech more than in the execution.
    i carry a little 38 special revolver with 5 "pipsqueek" 38 hollowpoints in it and no spare ammo whatsoever. celphone and a 38 revolver, that its it. can i handle any contingency? of course not. can i handle most likely scenarios? yes. i want to retreat if possible, protect my family, not engage in a gunbattle.
    of course other people may feel quite differently, and may survive scenarios i perish in. i accept that.
    God Bless
    Six for sure...Uh, I mean Five. Five for sure..

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array maclean3's Avatar
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    I'm still carrying my 642 IWB with one speedstrip in a drop pouch on the belt. During this cooler weather I also keep a sppedloader in my jacket pocket. BUG at the moment is a 3.75 or so Benchmade (or two).

    Once the Milspec takes over as primary carry weapon I plan on using my 642 as my BUG in the ankle holster I bought from ExSoldier (thanks Jim!). Not sure how often I'll carry the J-frame as BUG but the capability will be there when/if it's needed.

    The one thing I keep questioning is traffic stops: Say you're stopped and, for whatever reason, you inform the Offficer you're carrying. When he asks where it is (or asks you to put it on the dash, unload it, etc.) how's it going to look if you start pulling out multiple firearms? Seriously, has anyone ever been in the situation? It's my only REAL reservation about carrying a BUG other than my Benchmades.
    Jack

  5. #19
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    Say you're stopped and, for whatever reason, you inform the Offficer you're carrying. When he asks where it is (or asks you to put it on the dash, unload it, etc.) how's it going to look if you start pulling out multiple firearms?
    Interesting point Jack - very interesting !!!! Not something I had actually thought on too much.

    Conjures up a funny comic scene - ''Here is my primary officer'' - ''oh and hold on - here's main BUG''. "Oh near forgot, here is my NAA mini"

    ''Any more sir" - "Nope, not on me''
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  6. #20
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    I'm a firm proponent of the BUG concept and try to adhere to it whenever I can. By policy, my LE agency forbids BUG's...bummer....but on my own time, my PM9 will accompany my primary firearm (and me) whenever feasible and possible.
    USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Ti Carry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean3
    The one thing I keep questioning is traffic stops: Say you're stopped and, for whatever reason, you inform the Offficer you're carrying. When he asks where it is (or asks you to put it on the dash, unload it, etc.) how's it going to look if you start pulling out multiple firearms? Seriously, has anyone ever been in the situation? It's my only REAL reservation about carrying a BUG other than my Benchmades.
    Jack
    Not at all! I also think one would look prepared and legal to have both on you. I am not a criminal and if you legally carry you are not either. For what reason would a cop have for you to ever have to put your gun on the dash of a car and unload it? In Missouri I don't even have to tell a LEO I am carrying if I am pulled over.

    I would if I did get pulled over out of common courtesy but We CCWers have a problem sometimes thinking we are in the wrong carrying concealed as the anti's would want us to think we are.

    As I said the only reason I don't carry a BUG (at this time) is because I havenít found one that I would like to. Not because of what some LEO is going to think or how it will look, It will look perfectly legal and I have the permit to back that.


    Ti.
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  8. #22
    VIP Member Array maclean3's Avatar
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    Actually, it was an "either" place it on the dash, unload ... whatever the officer instructs you to do. We're not required to inform LE we're carrying either but since the permit apparently comes up when they run a driver's license, it seems there'd be times it might be prudent to inform the officer we're carrying.

    Someone here recently (sorry, can't recall who it was) was asked by the officer to place his weapon in plain sight during a routine stop, that sort of popped into mind with this thread. Not all Officers are going to react the same way to someone informing them they're armed, legal or not. Just wondering if carrying a BUG daily is worth the potential hassle - though if I think I might actually NEED a BUG I doubt I'd worry about what ifs.
    Jack

  9. #23
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    On the multiple weapon standpoint, I had to stop by the courthouse today, our local courthouse has gun safes for use by visitors , the metal detector & armed gaurds are right in front of the local police department question desk which is mained by an on duty LEO... well when i checked in I stated I had to disarm & use the gun vaults, The officers right down all items you place in their control, Well as I was disarming ( this took a few minutes) the officer @ the help desk came over & called another offecer over on his radio. Mind you I removed , I fullsize 1911, 1 Taurus PT140 , a 9mm Derringer,2 magazines for the 1911, 1 strider folder, 1 Hideaway knife, also a gerber multi tool. he was amazed at my arsenal & asked questions on my mode of concealment because he said that he would have never guessed I was armed when I walked in,As usual I was wearing cargo pants with a 5.11 shirt & a vest, The vest my wife modified with her sewing machine to house the mags, & the PT140 ( The vest is just a normal winter vest.) If the reaction I rewcieved from the LEOs at the courthouse where any indication I dont think multiple weapons are viewed any different then 1 weapon.

    I did leave my ASP in the car.

    I never really thought about what i carry because alot of it I just put on in the morning & have for so long that I reach for it without thinking.. plus having clothing that is adapted ( My wife sewed a pocket out of leather in the left front pocket of all my Cargo Pants for the derringer.) will make concealment much easier & less of a pain in the .ss
    Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.

  10. #24
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    I have a kel-tec P3AT and a S&W 642. In the colder weather and with deeper pockets, I'll take the 642. Otherwise it's the P3AT. I have pocket holstters for both.

    To be honest, I can draw and shoot the P3AT way better than the 642. I am leaning more towards the P3AT as the backup than the 642.

    Not always a backup, but always a spare magazine and a speedloader (if carrying the revolver).

  11. #25
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    I don't carry a BUG. I have my HK USP and have been shooting it fairly regularly with absolutely no problems and I feel comfortable with it's reliability. I do carry a knife at all times and have been thinking about maybe getting a .45 derringer. However, just being armed and alert seems to me to be enough.

  12. #26
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    Can anybody give an instance where shots were fired that a civie had to revert to his/her backup?

  13. #27
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    civilians

    Most civilians do not carry a back up gun. I'm guessing that there are not many stories about civilians having to go for the "back~up" & use it. For that exact reason.

    There ARE stories about civilians who have had a critical primary weapon failure and had NO back up gun to revert to.

    Search the web.

    You would also need to look for stories where there was a victim of a "gun grab" situation & no BUG available to the good guy...and also those instances where the primary was discovered & removed/taken (such as a hostage type situation) & no BUG was available. Some of those stories do not have great endings.

    Since LEOs are much more involved in daily situations where the primary weapon needs to be used...situations where a Primary Weapon Failure happened to a LEO would also be transferable & applicable to a Civilian in "Like Circumstances" ~
    The primary firearm does not have a built in Uniform/Badge recognition device that would cause it to function for a civilian but, fail for a LEO.

    Face it....it is a RARE event when any civilian will need a firearm on any given day.
    It would be RARER STILL that the primary would FAIL at that exact moment.
    While I consider it mandatory that extra ammunition be carried ~ It's honestly just an option to carry a BUG.
    I think a small BUG is a good idea.
    A little N.A.A. only weighs a few ounces & could be useful in many possible situations that I can imagine.

  14. #28
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    I'm not suggesting that BUGs aren't important, but when we look for or at stories of civilians that have primary weapon failures, there are many things that can contribute to that: most "civilians" (read non-gun people) want a cheap gun, not a reliable one. They may never shoot the weapon. It may sit in a drawer or closet for years and rust internally. I just saw a revolver fail, happened to be a Colt Cobra, for no apparent reason. I suspect if we looked inside the gun it's got some rust. A failure could be due to operator error. It may be bad ammo that they've got from their dad and is 50 years old.

    Then even considering civie stories about the primary weapon failing, where a quality, reliable gun in good operating condition was used, we would still have to be able to determine that a BUG would have changed the outcome. If the main gun goes click when it should go bang, we obviously needed to shoot right then. By the time the mind realizes the gun isn't firing and isn't going to, we throw the gun down, draw and index the BUG, assuming the BUG is as accessible as the main gun would be, 2 - 3 seconds has passed. If the BG is shooting....

    Gunfights often don't turn out good when the primary gun doesn't fail; if it does fail...

  15. #29
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    The chances of today's upper end firearms, shooting good commercially manufactured ammunition, having a malfunction, is about 5% in my opinion. But that 5% and a fellow named Murphy is why I always back up my primary with a BUG. If I ever have my primary taken away from me by a BG and I am able to break away, with a BUG, I at least have a chance of defending myself. Since they both are of the dame caliber I can use my primary's ammo in my BUG if need be.
    My BUG is an important part of my wardrobe and I dress around it. I carry a lot of stuff in my pocket but nothing goes in the pocket carrying the BUG. Plus I can also carry other things in other pockets, not affecting my ability to carry a BUG.

    Am I paranoid......I don't think so!!! Just prepared if things go awry.

    Betty, have you checked the label in that purse to make sure you are not exceeding the posted weight limit......LOL. Sorry.....my wife carries the kitchen sink in hers as well.
    The only thing needed for evil to exist is for good men to stand by and do nothing!!!

  16. #30
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    That's interesting Tex, how'd you come up with the 5%?

    I shoot well over 6,000 rounds a year. Most of the ammo is Walmart/Winchester 9mm value paks. I rarely see a malfunction. The 5% level would mean I should see 5 malfunctions out of 100 rounds.

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