Starting to leave out the BUG

This is a discussion on Starting to leave out the BUG within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs With ccw in mind i would heartily recomend mas' LFI to anyone , he does less shooting than most schools ...

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Thread: Starting to leave out the BUG

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs
    With ccw in mind i would heartily recomend mas' LFI to anyone , he does less shooting than most schools but has a " court defensible " program that is more " cerebrial " than almost anyone and is an unimpeachable expert witness if things do go to hell . The other one i would without reservation recomend is John Farnam who has i belive DTI here in colorado , i have met the man and audited one of his classes years ago , both thiese gentlemen will go the extra mile to far exceed the cost of the training. i cant say anything bad about a bunch of other instructors either but were i to spend my hard earned $$ on another round it would be with one of the two .
    I personally don't really care for Mas Ayoob. I can't put my finger on why exactly, but it seems to me he is a master at self promotion.

    If I had the money to spend on a course like that (I'm saving for it, too!) I'd go to either Thunder Ranch or GunSite. I am only familiar with Farnam by reputation and that is impeccable. So is Mas, it's just something I can't put my finger on....lol
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    ex on Mas, well many he seems to get crossways with , but that is ok by me ( so did chairman jeff once uppon a time before he was elivated to sainthood ) all i can say is Mas is prob the most unimpeachable of them all if you eaver god forbid need an expert witness , ergo i reccomend him , ( he used to be a nice guy too , i dont know anymore how he is since its been years ( before he farmed lfi courses out to other instructors ) since i have delt with him ) anyway thats my recomendations for folks as far as solid court defensible training goes if they can afford it , if not it wouldnt hurt to have either or both of thier books on a shelf and well thumbed LOL

  4. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier762
    I personally don't really care for Mas Ayoob. I can't put my finger on why exactly, but it seems to me he is a master at self promotion.

    If I had the money to spend on a course like that (I'm saving for it, too!) I'd go to either Thunder Ranch or GunSite. I am only familiar with Farnam by reputation and that is impeccable. So is Mas, it's just something I can't put my finger on....lol
    I've been to both. I've been to Gunsite for five courses, Thunder Ranch for one. If I go to a school this summer, of those two, it'll be Gunsite.

  5. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier762
    In my IDPA club (to which Miggy will attest, since he's in the club as well) we regularly use BUG scenarios where we put the BUG on top of a barrel and start from a "surrender" position. Since BUGs are mandated to have no more than 5 rds, all shots must be for neutralization (headshots).
    While that's good, it's hardly like throwing your main gun down and drawing a BUG.

    And that's one of the issues I have with BUGs; what do you do with the main gun? Do you train like that? The answer is usually no, but somehow under stress, it's gonna work out.

    I applaude you and your club on the BUG drills and especially for headshots!!!!!!

  6. #50
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    +1 tangle between gunsite and TR.. clint leaves a similar taste to me as to what Mas does to Ex ( on the self promotion issue LOL ) but he has set up a fine school and is a good instructor

  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs
    +1 tangle between gunsite and TR.. clint leaves a similar taste to me as to what Mas does to Ex ( on the self promotion issue LOL ) but he has set up a fine school and is a good instructor
    I fully agree. But Gunsite offers more variety in the training, FOF and scenarios. Multiple instructors etc.

  8. #52
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    Lot of good thoughts. I'm still trying to figure out if/how to carry a spare mag when something goes bump in the night. My wife has the walther w/ 15 +p JHP's, so that may be a backup. I think if I shoved an extra mag in my shorts and/or a BUG in my shorts, they would be around my ankles in short order.

    Where I am at now, still trying to figure out the extra mag / BUG for in the house at night. I was thinking about having a duty type belt w/ a holder and extra mags under the bed. Right now, it is my HK between the boxspring and mattres (loaded, none in the chamber).

    Out and about - I would not consider the BUG just as a BUG only. It is easier/not noticeable to others for me to have my hand in my front pocket on my 642 or my P3AT if I feel something is a little hinky than it is for my to have my hand on my semi sitting strong side IWB. Other than that, I have to wait until something goes down to draw from strong side IWB. And we all know, action beats reaction.

    It's not getting any easier.

  9. #53
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Soj , IMHO the pistol is the bug for at home middle of the night stuff , and it is a sig 220 in a galco miami clasic balinced by two reloads ( put it on like a vest ) if someone comes to my home like that its an invitation to a gunfight , i have two reactions to invitations , perferably i dont rsvp but if i cant avoid it , i simply prefer a long gun , and 12 ga stoked with 2-3/4 00 buck works for me there lol

  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs
    Soj , IMHO the pistol is the bug for at home middle of the night stuff , and it is a sig 220 in a galco miami clasic balinced by two reloads ( put it on like a vest ) if someone comes to my home like that its an invitation to a gunfight , i have two reactions to invitations , perferably i dont rsvp but if i cant avoid it , i simply prefer a long gun , and 12 ga stoked with 2-3/4 00 buck works for me there lol
    I like the way you are thinking!!!

  11. #55
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    Wow, sojourner, you are puttin' some good thought into this. If I may add to the confusion: if you're at home when something goes bump in the night, you need to stay put and force the BGs to come to you. If you have kids and must get to the kids, you're not gonna have time to don all that gear; get your handgun and light and go. The 15 rounds in your gun is enough ammo, the rest is pretty much up to you and God.

  12. #56
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    Tangle i will say that in my case its 1. pants , 2. 12 ga pulled from leaning aginst the wall by the bed ( no kids in this house ) and 3. don the " vest " then i light up and check out noises i realise stay put and call is the right response but wth i was an officer too many years to bug them if the cat knocked something off the sideboard LOL

  13. #57
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    LOL! Although I think I can shoot just as good with or without my pants on but I can't say that I've ever tried it!

    In my situation, it's unlikely that I would have to leave the bedroom so my first priority is my handgun then my handheld light. Of course when I pick up my handgun it's wearin' an X200 weapon light.

  14. #58
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Tangle i agree shooting is unaffected by pants but there was an unfortunate incodent a fiew years back involving my daughter coming home with a boyfriend late one night or early one morning depending on your scedule , well lets just say that relationship was going no where BEFORE i arrived onscene in all my splender and glory, anyway pants are an agreed uppon requirement for the well appointed strange noise in the night situation now in the redneck household LOL

  15. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs
    Tangle i agree shooting is unaffected by pants but there was an unfortunate incodent a fiew years back involving my daughter coming home with a boyfriend late one night or early one morning depending on your scedule , well lets just say that relationship was going no where BEFORE i arrived onscene in all my splender and glory, anyway pants are an agreed uppon requirement for the well appointed strange noise in the night situation now in the redneck household LOL
    Gee Redneck, now how am I supposed to get that image out of my mind?

    In all my training, "...shooting is unaffected without pants..." is unproven and probably will remain so. But I may bring it up the next time I do a FOF scenario at Gunsite.

  16. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle
    Wow, sojourner, you are puttin' some good thought into this. If I may add to the confusionIf you have kids and must get to the kids, you're not gonna have time to don all that gear; get your handgun and light and go. The 15 rounds in your gun is enough ammo, the rest is pretty much up to you and God.
    : if you're at home when something goes bump in the night, you need to stay put and force the BGs to come to you.

    I know that staying put and calling LEO is the prescribed course of action (no children at home for me).

    The rub is that sometimes the wife does not react the same way as I do. When that has happened in the past, I have gone to clear the house.

    Case in point: I will copy a message I sent out on a gun portion of a motorcycle forum
    --
    my latest hand trembler
    I have a house alarm that does not call the police/fire. Just alerts w/ a SUPER loud siren and a voice saying "BURGLAR ALERT!, BURGLER ALERT!!! LEAVE NOW!!!" over and over again.

    Once in a blue moon when there is a storm nearby, the sound of thunder or something shakes just right to set off the alarm to the exterior basement door (I have a walk-out basement to the yard). 0 dark thirty, I woke up to the BURGLAR ALERT!!! sound. Threw the cell phone to my wife, grabbed my handgun and surefire (wife has her own gun and streamlight). Cleared 2nd floor, then the 1st floor and saw that the alarm was tripped in the walk-out basement door. Locked the basement door (the inner door from first floor to basement) behind me, snuck downstairs. Went to turn the corner and FLASH , BOOOM!!!!! was the absolutely loudest thunder and lightning I have ever experienced. The sound superceeded the sond of "BURGLAR ALERT..." that was ringing in my ears. It lit up the outside like daylight.

    Jumped back, squeezed the grip of the gun (good thing I had trigger discipline). Just caught myself before I s**t myself (wasn't sure till I checked later), Realized it was the storm that caused the alarm, made sure the door was locked and went back to bed.

    Got back to the room, my wife laughed at me and said I looked like a dork (running around in my underwear with a gun and flashlight) and said she knew it was the storm. Put the gun back in its spot. At that time, I realized my hand was shaking uncontrollably. My hand shook for at least another 5 minutes.

    Probably not the best idea to try and clear the house myself. Maybe next time, I'll call the local police.
    --
    I had the option of turning off the alarm and going back to sleep, calling local PD for a house clearing (and breaking down the front door) or clearing the house myself. I chose option 3.

    At the time, my thinking was that I wanted to be somewhere between my wife and the threat. I could only control my actions, noone else's actions. I did not want to have to replace a front door and look like a dork to the police (gawd, I hate it when my ego gets in the way of sound decisions). Now or in the future, I might do it differently. Not exactly sure how to hanlde it yet.

    It has been a stretch to get my wife NRA basic handgun training. I want to get the shotgun training, but I am going to pace her. I don't want her thinking I am a macho gun nut (as opposed to a gun enthusiast w/ a belief in self preservation and preservation of her (the love of my life))

    No easy answers, and I am trying to do the best I can and learn from the experience of others. Hopefully I will never have to be as prepared as I am trying to be.

    As another tangent: I talked to a friend of mine a (LEO, chief of police, leader of the SWAT team) nd mentioned this. His advice to me was that: (1) a door is easier to replace than a loved one, and (2) he recommended that I place a "kit" on each floor that could be thrown out the window and retrieved by the cops. The kit would be: something that could be seen at night, e.g., a glow in the dark stick that is activated by snapping the stick (or a flourescent painted tennis ball), which had attached a key to the house and if possible floor plans to the house.

    He was pretty strong on the key. He said that throwing out a key to the police would give them the ability to tactically enter the home (w/out breaking down the door and giving away their position) and stopping the agressor. The floorplans would make life easier for the entry team.

    I believe his recommendation is a good one. Again, I have to pace this so my wife does not think I have gone "too far".

    I appreciate the discussion rhus far.

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