This should stir up a hornet's nest.

This is a discussion on This should stir up a hornet's nest. within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Sevigney would be just as good with a lot of guns. If S&W or Springfield gave him a better deal, he would be winning with ...

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Thread: This should stir up a hornet's nest.

  1. #136
    Member Array ranburr's Avatar
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    Sevigney would be just as good with a lot of guns. If S&W or Springfield gave him a better deal, he would be winning with an M&P, XD, or even a 1911. Look at Ernie Langdom, he did great first with a Beretta and then a Sig. My point is, there are a lot of guns out there that will get the job done if you do your part. My only issue is with those that make blanket statements about particular makes of quality guns. I'll say it this way, the shooter makes thegun, not the other way around.

    ranburr

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  3. #137
    Member Array Fred's Avatar
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    This kind of discussion always deteriorates into "mine's better than yours". The question is more telling than the answer ;-)

  4. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy View Post
    ...Stoppages aside....

    How about handguns that have a manual safety, specifically where the handgun is holstered with the safety in the ON position? Here's another observation. No one that I can recall (I didn't start noting these events on range cards until just a couple of years ago) has ever made it though either of our three day (intermediate / advanced) handgun courses without forgetting to disengage a manual safety at least once. This seems to occur more often when the stress levels are higher but it can happen anytime.

    For SD purposes, disengaging the safety before you can make the first shot is more of a concern, IMO, than a stoppage which would (at best) delay or (at worst) prevent you from making the second, third, or fourth shots.

    The "safety" phenomena isn't limited to handguns. It is common to see participants in our patrol rifle / carbine or tactical shotgun courses forget to disengage the safety as well.

    Randy
    Randy,
    My bad, I read the portion of your post quoted above, and forgot to respond to it.

    Yeah, manual safeties bother me - it's one reason I don't carry a 1911. I've done lots and lots of timed draw and fires with my 1911s and when I really push the speed up, I sometimes don't get the safety swiped off. And, sometimes I don't get the grip safety fully depressed due to a not-quite-right-grip and I get a trigger block.

    But, I have also seen more than one DA/SA gun holstered with the hammer still cocked. I did that very thing at Blackwater with my Beretta 92FS ; an instructor pointed it out to me.

    Then there's Glock. I have unquestionably had more trigger blocks drawing a Glock than I have with 1911s. It tends to go with high speed draws like we'd probably be doing in a gunfight situation. I have hours of video of me drawing Glocks and 1911s and I caught two Glock trigger blocks on video. Here's how I believe it happens.

    It all has to do with what I'm going to be so bold as to call a design error in the safety lever in the Glock trigger. In high speed draws, I apparently generate side pressure on the trigger as my finger comes on to the trigger. This causes the lever in the trigger to go to the left side of the trigger and bind, locking up the trigger. Granted, I may have developed a bad finger technique over the years, but if that little lever was designed a bit differently, the trigger blocks couldn't happen. E.g. I don't have that problem with an XD.

    I noticed that problem on my latest Glock, a G21SF and I wasn't even drawing it.

    One would think that the technique that causes the trigger block would convert to a hit problem, but it doesn't. I was timed at Gunsite (G19) and at Blackwater (Beretta 92FS DA/SA) and I had the fastest draw and fire times in either class. I don't remember Gunsite, that was 10 years ago, but at Blackwater (Level II handgun) all my hits were in the A zone and we were at 5 or 7 yards from the target

    Honestly, I'm not as fast as that might sound, but I am fast and accurate doing draw and fires. One of my better draw and fires to full arm extension was 0.88 seconds from beep to bang; hand hanging at the side, not gripping the gun.

    With all the safeties, could it be that guns are so safe they're dangerous?
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

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