This should stir up a hornet's nest. - Page 2

This should stir up a hornet's nest.

This is a discussion on This should stir up a hornet's nest. within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Many times I only carry a snubby with 5 rounds sooooo my gun will just be getting hot when it runs dry. I don't plan ...

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  1. #16
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    Many times I only carry a snubby with 5 rounds sooooo my gun will just be getting hot when it runs dry. I don't plan to be in an 800 round gun fight armed with a pistol.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.


  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    You know this is just the observation of one man.

    For all we know the next class he teaches the (insert brand name/pistol type here) will be the ones with the most failures.

    All mechanical devices will fail. That is one of the proven truths about life.

    Train hard with what you got. Maintain what you got. If what you got breaks down in the heat of battle transition quickly to whatever else you got! Fight to win, win to survive.
    Why Ike, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array Jmac00's Avatar
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    I don't know about you folks, but I know at least 30 people with 1911 type "Race guns" made by STI/SV, Para-Ordnance, Colt and Kimber and a few others.

    All of them (including my Para) run flawlessly. We do get the occasional jam/stovepipe and "mag feed" problems.

    But I have never seen one break, or have so many problems a competitor could not continue.

    I think part of the problem might be maintenance. Us IPSC shooters tend to take a lot better care of our equipment than your average shooter.

    My Glock, has never had a problem, But like I said, I maintain my equipment.
    HAPPY NEW YEAR
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  4. #19
    Member Array cheezewhiz6's Avatar
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    WOW

    The article is sad but true, I know noone is going into an 800 round gun fight but you atleast have to find this somewhat interesting. Afterall you get what you pay for right. It is kind of funny that most people who will dispise this article own the guns that were mentioned that failed.
    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!” - Ben Franklin

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array sgtD's Avatar
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    Anyone who is now intending on getting rid of their 1911s, send me a PM. Now that we know they are no good, I'l do you a favor and take them off your hands real cheap. lol

    All kidding aside, the main reasons that I choose 1911s to keep around in case of a SHTF situation is that mine are reliable, I keep spare parts on hand, and it's the only handgun I personally know how to repair. So I'm stickin with it.
    When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

  6. #21
    Member Array packin45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheezewhiz6 View Post
    The article is sad but true, I know noone is going into an 800 round gun fight but you atleast have to find this somewhat interesting. Afterall you get what you pay for right. It is kind of funny that most people who will dispise this article own the guns that were mentioned that failed.
    I was thinking the same thing

    At the IDPA match I shot last weekend, the only guns that jammed were 1911s. I think I lost count after 5 or 6.
    G17, G26

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil...

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array psychophipps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheezewhiz6 View Post
    The article is sad but true, I know noone is going into an 800 round gun fight but you atleast have to find this somewhat interesting. Afterall you get what you pay for right. It is kind of funny that most people who will dispise this article own the guns that were mentioned that failed.
    I can tell you that if I had spent the money that a lot of newer 1911 owners are paying and had my gun fail in any way, shape, or form in less than 800 rounds of "hard use"...the poor guys around me had better have darn good ear plugs because I'd flip my frickin' wig. The level of verbal catastrophe would be truly epic as my verbal assault broke like a tsunami of auditory destruction over the firing line just before the pistol took a parabolic arc as it was flung at the targets (if I could clear it first).

    It's not about firing 800 rounds in a SD situation. It's about dropping good money on a product that works when you need it to and 800 trouble-free rounds with good sized gaps in between and general maintenance/lubing isn't exactly like trying to squeeze pig dung into diamonds, people!
    Last edited by psychophipps; March 20th, 2009 at 08:24 AM.

  8. #23
    Member Array Geronimo45's Avatar
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    At the IDPA match I shot last weekend, the only guns that jammed were 1911s. I think I lost count after 5 or 6.
    Would that be partially due to 1911s being the most prevalent gun in that match? Or were they not?

  9. #24
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    I'm not in law enforcement, have never been in the military and am no authority on combat tactics. With these disclaimers, I offer the following (civilian) observations:

    1. The requirements of a "theater based" combat weapon are probably different than those of a civilian self-defense weapon. Failures from overheating and debris induced malfunctions, while of supreme importance during an extended deployment seem to me to be of less importance to a day to day carry weapon. There's no reason why any civilian shouldn't keep their carry gun clean, properly lubed and maintained (recoil and mag springs, for example). How a gun performs regularly, say, in weekly IDPA matches, is probably a pretty good indicator as to whether or not one might reasonably depend on the gun. (Of course, any mechanical device can fail. Perhaps this is the best argument for carrying a BUG).

    2. The observations offered by these trainers reinforces the importance of familiarity and "rounds down range" with one's chosen gun platform. Manipulation of grip safeties and transitioning from DA to SA shouldn't require a lot of thought. It should be a conditioned response.

    3. Race guns (and race tactics, for that matter) may not be all that relevant to self-defense needs. One of the things I appreciate about the philosophy of IDPA is that it's an attempt to grant a modicum of shooting experience with every day shooting guns and potential shooting scenarios.

    I'd like to thank the guys who shared their training observations. I highly value insights of such people. It's one of the reasons I take time to read these sites.

    PC

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array jhh3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Some of it makes sense while other portions of his little diatribe are about as valuable as a full bucket of monkey urine.
    This is a headstone epitaph better than most!

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Some of it makes sense while other portions of his little diatribe are about as valuable as a full bucket of monkey urine.
    Come on now don't hold back tell us how you really feel
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array tankdriver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgtD View Post
    The following was posted on Survival Blog a while back by a reader who is a firearms instructor. The two are rather long, though I edited for brevity, but are worth reading I think becuase your life may depend upon many of the things mentioned herein. Original here:SurvivalBlog.com

    Observations on Real World Pistol Malfunctions and Failures, by PPPP


    Sixth. SIG [brand pistol]s had no failures, but the heavy double action initial trigger pull, followed by the light single action second pull caused students to perform poorly. As a result of the two differing trigger pulls, many students [armed with SIGs] tried to "game it" by leaving the hammer cocked and re-holstering which is a big safety concern. One student narrowly missed shooting his leg when re-holstering because of this. A note on SIGs: While there is nothing wrong with SIG's quality or reliability, remember that due to the two differing trigger pulls this handgun will require three to four times the amount of practice to master compared with any other common handgun.

    This is the reason all my pistols are DAO. No matter which one I, or my wife grabs, they will all shoot the same........

    Pick them up, and pull the trigger, all pulls the same, no safety, no decocker, no half set with a DAK, less parts to break, or wear......

    Just shoot the thing.......
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  13. #28
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    I have shot in more then a hand full of International Practical Shooting Confederation (I.P.S.C.) shoots and have yet to see an XD or a glock Fail. However I see a few 1911's fail every trip. As Forest Gump would say: “I’m not a smart man but I know which gun’s work” But then again some people still think ridding a horse is a good idea. To each his own. As for shooting up 800 rounds in a day......who has the money anymore?
    CCW: Never get killed for lack of shooting back!

  14. #29
    Senior Member Array dunndw's Avatar
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    I've ran my 1911s with 8 round mags through several two day classes, no problems @ all
    No mags failed, no baseplates fell off, just 1000s or rounds with no issues that would have taken me out of a fight
    "If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."

  15. #30
    Member Array NC Buckeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psychophipps View Post
    I can tell you that if I had spent the money that a lot of newer 1911 owners are paying and had my gun fail in any way, shape, or form in less than 800 rounds of "hard use"...the poor guys around me had better have darn good ear plugs because I'd flip my frickin' wig. The level of verbal catastrophe would be truly epic as my verbal assault broke like a tsunami of auditory destruction over the firing line just before the pistol took a parabolic arc as it was flung at the targets (if I could clear it first).

    It's not about firing 800 rounds in a SD situation. It's about dropping good money on a product that works when you need it to and 800 trouble-free rounds with good sized gaps in between and general maintenance/lubing isn't exactly like trying to squeeze pig dung into diamonds, people!
    Buy a Glock

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