This should stir up a hornet's nest. - Page 3

This should stir up a hornet's nest.

This is a discussion on This should stir up a hornet's nest. within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Let's keep in mind the writer's definition of failure (NOT malfunction), (defined as taking you out of the fight, not just a malfunction That said, ...

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Thread: This should stir up a hornet's nest.

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array T Bone's Avatar
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    Let's keep in mind the writer's definition of failure (NOT malfunction),
    (defined as taking you out of the fight, not just a malfunction
    That said, if I went to Front Sight (? ) for a weekend class, I'd take my Wilson Combat CQB, which is my EDC. I'd use 8 round mags (47D's mostly, a couple of CMC Power mags and one WC ETM), and other gear I normally carry. I am QUITE confident that mine would be one of the 19 out of 25 1911's that DID NOT fail (I would be surprised even at a malfunction). I'd also take another 1911 as a back up gun (just in case, courses are expensive, wouldn't want to miss out!).

    As a second back up, yes, I'd take a Glock. Either my 17 or 19. Just to be safe (see last sentence above).

    Most of the observations listed actually seem about right to me, and remember, this was considered about average for what they see.

    Keeping in mind the overly tight tolerances of some higher end 1911's, and some of the lower end stuff sold to those wanting an entry level 1911, combine with all the modifications one is tempted to with a 1911, this really doesn't surprise me. You'll note that Glocks are rarely modified, especially highly modified. To me, they are the "AK47" of the pistol world.

    I've never fired 800 rounds in a weekend. Few not in a training course will. I have fired 300 and 350 a couple of times, and know what to expect from that.

    OKS, I wonder which portion = the full bucket of monkey urine? (My bet goes to the 8rd. magazines for starters). Glad you said a full bucket though. That way we don't need to discuss if the bucket is half empty, or half full.
    Regards, T Bone.


    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". Benjamin Franklin


  2. #32
    Member Array packin45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geronimo45 View Post
    Would that be partially due to 1911s being the most prevalent gun in that match? Or were they not?
    I didn't count the people shooting 1911s....it was more that I just noticed the malfunctions, and that they were all with 1911s.

    Pretty sure the most prevalent guns were the G17, G34, M&P, etc., as always.

    I shot a G26
    G17, G26

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil...

  3. #33
    Member Array packin45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
    Let's keep in mind the writer's definition of failure (NOT malfunction),

    That said, if I went to Front Sight (? ) for a weekend class, I'd take my Wilson Combat CQB, which is my EDC. I'd use 8 round mags (47D's mostly, a couple of CMC Power mags and one WC ETM), and other gear I normally carry. I am QUITE confident that mine would be one of the 19 out of 25 1911's that DID NOT fail (I would be surprised even at a malfunction). I'd also take another 1911 as a back up gun (just in case, courses are expensive, wouldn't want to miss out!).

    As a second back up, yes, I'd take a Glock. Either my 17 or 19. Just to be safe (see last sentence above).

    Most of the observations listed actually seem about right to me, and remember, this was considered about average for what they see.

    Keeping in mind the overly tight tolerances of some higher end 1911's, and some of the lower end stuff sold to those wanting an entry level 1911, combine with all the modifications one is tempted to with a 1911, this really doesn't surprise me. You'll note that Glocks are rarely modified, especially highly modified. To me, they are the "AK47" of the pistol world.

    I've never fired 800 rounds in a weekend. Few not in a training course will. I have fired 300 and 350 a couple of times, and know what to expect from that.

    OKS, I wonder which portion = the full bucket of monkey urine? (My bet goes to the 8rd. magazines for starters). Glad you said a full bucket though. That way we don't need to discuss if the bucket is half empty, or half full.
    I'd just take two G17s and be done with it.

    I think comparing the reliability of a 1911 to a modern polymer semi auto is like comparing the performance of a '32 Ford V8 Coupe to a 2004 Ford Mustang Cobra SVT.

    Flame away all you want, but I know what I'll be carrying.
    G17, G26

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil...

  4. #34
    Senior Member Array psychophipps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packin45 View Post
    I'd just take two G17s and be done with it.

    I think comparing the reliability of a 1911 to a modern polymer semi auto is like comparing the performance of a '32 Ford V8 Coupe to a 2004 Ford Mustang Cobra SVT.

    Flame away all you want, but I know what I'll be carrying.
    Now, now. That extra 1/2 inch of group tightness at 25 yards for 2-5 times the money might be the difference between life and death. Granted, it's not bloody likely, but you never really know.

    You don't need long-term reliability if you can get them with the first trouble-free shots.

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I can totally strip and replace/fit any components on my 1911's not so much on my other handguns,Like others have said 800 rounds is a lot,I think I would print a litlle with 16 boxes of ammo or over 100 mags strapped to my body
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array sgtD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tankdriver View Post
    This is the reason all my pistols are DAO. No matter which one I, or my wife grabs, they will all shoot the same........

    Pick them up, and pull the trigger, all pulls the same, no safety, no decocker, no half set with a DAK, less parts to break, or wear......

    Just shoot the thing.......
    That's one reason my carry and HD guns are D/A revolvers. Also becuase they don't jam, mags don't fail, no safeties to worry over, and the trigger pull is instantly determinable. I can leave 'em loaded for 20 yrs without worrying about springs wearing. Just point and pull the trigger. For civilian work I don't expect to need more than 12-15 before I either am dead, stopped the threat, or have been able to get out of the situation.

    If a 1911 is a 32 Ford Coupe then I must be a model T man, but oh well.

    Never had a failure of any kind with a revolver in 20 some yrs of shooting. I've had 'em worked on, becuase they were becoming worn or out of time, but I still haven't had one fail.
    When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Array ASSA9's Avatar
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    I'd say the moral of the story is to be sure of your equipment
    nuff said.
    Zoe: "Preacher, don't the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killing?

    Book: "Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps."

  8. #38
    Member Array HavOkSIS's Avatar
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    I carry a Sig 239 DA/SA on a daily basis, and frequently run drills, tactical senarios and anything else I can think of with it. Practice is the key. Adapt and overcome. I have no problem whatsoever with the transition from DA to SA, but the reason is practice. I also practice with 2 (two), let me say that again, TWO guns only, my primary and my backup. I know these guns intimately and know exactly how each one will behave. That is the only way I will trust either one with my life.

    On a side note the DA first trigger pull actually saved a potental BG's life... he turned out not to be the BG at all, and that would have been a bad situation for me.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  9. #39
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    For all the 1911 Owners:

    I have always advocated since day 1 that if you want a 1911 you can bet your life on, you need to make a decision; do you want a game gun, or one to fight with?

    What I did a long time ago was seek out a gunsmith who competes in sports like IPSC or IDPA; they have unique insight into what works and what doesn't, and, especially where IPSC is concerned outside of those training schools mentioned, you will never find any other venue where you will run your gun and equipment as hard and test actual reliability issues.

    A fighting 1911 should be as the original posters describe; it should be simple, and pretty much as JMB designed it. It doesn't have to lock up like a bank vault it just has to be able to shoot 3" or better at 10 yards. If your threats are any farther away, you need a rifle or shotgun anyway.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  10. #40
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    I told you so.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  11. #41
    Member Array sigpack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HavOkSIS View Post
    I carry a Sig 239 DA/SA on a daily basis, and frequently run drills, tactical senarios and anything else I can think of with it. Practice is the key. Adapt and overcome. I have no problem whatsoever with the transition from DA to SA, but the reason is practice. I also practice with 2 (two), let me say that again, TWO guns only, my primary and my backup. I know these guns intimately and know exactly how each one will behave. That is the only way I will trust either one with my life.

    On a side note the DA first trigger pull actually saved a potental BG's life... he turned out not to be the BG at all, and that would have been a bad situation for me.
    I would also ask why he singled out Sigs. ALL DA/SA pistols function like this. We are issued Berrettas and we have to learn to adapt to the DA first shot, just like my Sig.

  12. #42
    Member Array CharlieP's Avatar
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    Maybe this is the problem ...

    Quote Originally Posted by sigpack View Post
    I would also ask why he singled out Sigs. ALL DA/SA pistols function like this. We are issued Berrettas and we have to learn to adapt to the DA first shot, just like my Sig.
    I suspect the problem some folks have with the "transition" is really just a lack of experience shooting real DA with anything. So they screw up the first shot and its all downhill from there.

  13. #43
    VIP Member Array sgtD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edr9x23super View Post

    A fighting 1911 should be as the original posters describe; it should be simple, and pretty much as JMB designed it. It doesn't have to lock up like a bank vault it just has to be able to shoot 3" or better at 10 yards.
    Preach on brother!
    When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

  14. #44
    Member Array ranburr's Avatar
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    I have taken classes with 1911s, CZ 75s, and XDMs. I clean my guns every thousand rounds. I put a thousand rounds through any gun before I take it to class. My 1911s are extremely tight and highly customized as are my CZs and XDMs. I always take two identical pistols to every class. I have never had a malfunction, much less have a pistol go out of action. I firmly believe that 99% of all malfunctions are shooter error.

    ranburr

  15. #45
    Member Array rcruz's Avatar
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    If you run/maintain a 1911 in the specs that JMB intended (and the Army, of course) you will see a LOT LESS 1911s choking. I am not talking about cosmetics, I am talking about dimensions, spring weights, magazines, metallurgy, and ammo.

    YMMV.
    bonis nocet quisqus malis perpercit

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