10mm Questions & Confusion

[jwalker497]

Okay, so I was searching threads on the ole 40 vs 45 debate and in my searching I came across the loley 10mm, which I knew very little about. After researching this caliber, From what I can tell it's the best of both worlds in that it offers the velocity of the 40 and a large bullet. The numbers I saw suggest it's one beast of a round. Quite frankly, I am suprised that it's not as popular as it could be given the advanatges, but I understand recoil can be an issue.

But there are few things about this caliber I don't understand.

1. I have seen some articles on line that suggest the 10mm does not offer any additional "stopping power" over the 40cal becuase it tends to over penetrate. I don't get that. If heavy and slow is good, and light and fast is good, would'nt heavy and fast be the best??

2. Given that the 40 is a sawed off 10mm, wouldn't it be better to just buy a 10mm and buy some factory loads(no reloading here) that are downloaded to 40cal specs, if that's possible?? Does the 40cal offer any improvements over the 10 aside form price and being smaller.

3. I've read that the 10mm can shoot 40cal bullets, is this true? I was considering the Glock 20 for the 10mm gun for reference.

4. Glock makes two 10mms, a subcompact and full size, would the recoil be much harsher in the subcompact??

5. To make sure I understand, one of the benefits of the increased power of the 10mm in velocity, etc would illustrate itself in the real work in terms of range. The 10mm should be able to reach out farther than the 40, is that correct?? If this is true, it might make an ideal gun to carry while out in the woods to protect form wildlife, etc.

6. Recoil - how bad is it compared to a 40 or 45 in a realtively similiar sized gun. Unfortunatley, I have no nearby range that has one to rent.

7. Loads, based on my limited research, it seems that the 10mm is maybe the most versatile caliber for people who don't reload, you cant take it all the way down to approx 130 and up to almost 230, that's one hell of a range and I dont know for sure but I don't think the mainstay 9, 40, 45 have that wide of a spectrum, correct??? That's a great advantage.

8. lastly, aside form the glock 20 in 10mm, are there any other relaiable semi auto loaders out there that are worth considering??

9. Do they make the Glock 20 in their "SF" version??

10. As Always, Thanks, for all anwering all of my stupid questions!!!

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Siafu]

When the SHTF don't expect to find any 10mm ammo. I like to be able to get my ammo at the same place I buy my toilet paper and motor oil - Walmart!

Get a 9mm or .40 and practice your shot placement. Problem solved.

[SonofASniper]

1. I have seen some articles on line that suggest the 10mm does not offer any additional "stopping power" over the 40cal becuase it tends to over penetrate. I don't get that. If heavy and slow is good, and light and fast is good, would'nt heavy and fast be the best?? That is a much debated subject, and everyone has an opinion, and most opinions are based on internet wisdom and are not worth the oxygen expended to type or read them. My opinion is that the 10mm is a very excellent self defense round, but is deficient because there are not many firearms available for it nor is there an ample supply of reasonably priced ammunition available.

2. Given that the 40 is a sawed off 10mm, wouldn't it be better to just buy a 10mm and buy some factory loads(no reloading here) that are downloaded to 40cal specs, if that's possible?? Does the 40cal offer any improvements over the 10 aside form price and being smaller. Nope. I think you about have it. The .40 was developed to replace the short tenure of the 10mm at the FBI. The two primary reasons that I have learned as to why they seeked to replace it is 1.) The contract guns the FBI bought had a tendency to crack frames from the pressure of the round (cough *smith* cough *wesson*) and 2.) that the round was difficult for shooters with smaller hands to handle.

3. I've read that the 10mm can shoot 40cal bullets, is this true? I was considering the Glock 20 for the 10mm gun for reference. I have often wondered the same thing, and I have heard the same thing from many people claiming it can be done. I have yet to meet someone who actually has done it. If you would be so kind as to try it out for me and give a range report, I would be very appreciative.

4. Glock makes two 10mms, a subcompact and full size, would the recoil be much harsher in the subcompact?? Yes, but recoil is partially a subjective thing. You may find that you shoot a 10mm glock better than a .40 s&w glock.

5. To make sure I understand, one of the benefits of the increased power of the 10mm in velocity, etc would illustrate itself in the real work in terms of range. The 10mm should be able to reach out farther than the 40, is that correct?? If this is true, it might make an ideal gun to carry while out in the woods to protect form wildlife, etc.Many of the members here will agree, that 10mm is probably the best auto caliber available. Otherwise, stick with a larger revolver caliber.

6. Recoil - how bad is it compared to a 40 or 45 in a realtively similiar sized gun. Unfortunatley, I have no nearby range that has one to rent. I would personally put it in the category of being a little snappier than a .45 but not as snappy as a .40. I would primarily attibute the .40 being snappier because it is on a smaller frame than the 10mm. This is strictly speaking from experience with Glocks only.

7. Loads, based on my limited research, it seems that the 10mm is maybe the most versatile caliber for people who don't reload, you cant take it all the way down to approx 130 and up to almost 230, that's one hell of a range and I dont know for sure but I don't think the mainstay 9, 40, 45 have that wide of a spectrum, correct??? That's a great advantage. Yes. I think it is, but then, I am a fan of the 10mm.

8. lastly, aside form the glock 20 in 10mm, are there any other relaiable semi auto loaders out there that are worth considering?? Kimber and Dan Wesson both make current production 10mm's. The only others I have heard of have been custom jobs.

9. Do they make the Glock 20 in their "SF" version??Yes

10. As Always, Thanks, for all anwering all of my stupid questions!!!

When the SHTF don't expect to find any 10mm ammo. I like to be able to get my ammo at the same place I buy my toilet paper and motor oil - Walmart!

And Siafu just won the day with pointing at the primary problem with 10mm.

[jwalker497]

Thanks Sniper, I appreciate your insight!

[86thecat]

1. To me that's like saying a 458 Lott doesn't have more stopping power than a 45-70, because it will just over penetrate. When shooting water filled milk jugs the impact of a 10mm HP is greater than that of a .40.
2. A lot of factory 10mm is not loaded up to max, and there are some "FBI" lighter loads available.
3.Same bullets, you just have to make sure you're working within the recommended velocity range. If you're talking about shooting the shorter .40 in a 10 the rumor is the extractor might hold the .40 in place for a firing pin strike but it is not reliable or advisable.
4. I don't think the G29 recoil is too bad but my tolerance is a little higher than some. My full size Glock 20 recoil felt the same as a sub compact Glock 27 in .40.
5. The 10mm with stout loads (180 gn CorBon softpoints @ 1320 fps) is usually considered the minimum woods gun in bear country, the .40 is not. The 10mm with stout loads is accepted for deer hunting, the .40 is not.

I like the 10mm platform enough that I sold my G27 and carry a full size G20 in 10mm every day. It will handle social problems and woods problems by just swapping from hollow point to soft point. And if SHTF it's a little late to run to Wally World to buy ammo.

[86thecat]

I think EAA is still marketing the Witness 10mm also. Some seem to love them, others not so much.

[SonofASniper]

By the way, on question #3, I was being sarcastic about going out and trying it and reporting back. 86thecat put it best when he stated that it would work in theory, but it is not advisable.

[pogo2]

I've had a 10mm Colt Delta Gold Cup for about 10 years and really enjoy shooting it. I believe that a 1911 and 10mm go together beautifully. But finding target ammunition at a reasonable price has always been a struggle, and is currently almost impossible.

At first I bought my ammo at gun shows, and the large ammo vendors usually had a few boxes available, but at a 30% higher price than .40. Then I discovered the mail order vendor Georgia Arms, which sold 10mm practice ammo at about the same price as .40. I used them for several years.

But lately Georgia Arms is two months behind on filling orders, and has raised prices by about 35%. I have run out of 10mm ammo and don't have any orders in for more. Since .40 ammo has been more readily available and reasonably priced, I have been shooting quite a bit of that through my three .40 caliber guns. I actually considered getting a .40 caliber conversion barrel for my Delta, but haven't pursued that very hard yet.

My bottom line is that 10mm would be a very popular caliber if ammo were available and reasonably priced. There is very little reason it should cost more than .40 ammo, based on materials cost.

[atctimmy]

I think EAA is still marketing the Witness 10mm also. Some seem to love them, others not so much.

EAA makes a very nice pistol. Look at the elite match models, they are very nice. Once you buy a 10mm you could also buy a .40 barrel for it and switch between the two.


I am of the opinion that it would be unsafe to fire a .40 in a 10mm due to the length of the .40. Just as the cartridge is starting to expand the bullet would encounter the end of the chamber and the throat of the barrel. This IMO could act as an obstruction and cause pressure to spike and a case rupture or worse. The above is all theory and not proven.

[sbebenelli]

When the SHTF don't expect to find any 10mm ammo. I like to be able to get my ammo at the same place I buy my toilet paper and motor oil - Walmart!

Get a 9mm or .40 and practice your shot placement. Problem solved.

I can't seem to find any ammo at Walmart

[SonofASniper]

I can't seem to find any ammo at Walmart

Oh, it comes, and goes really fast. The Walmart I was at last night grabbing some groceries had 5 100 packs of .40 in. I just happen to be sitting on a lot of .40 right now and I have no money so I left it for the other sharks.

I have never seen 10mm at a Walmart however. In fact, it overall is just a plain harder caliber to find.

[dlclarkii]

When the SHTF don't expect to find any 10mm ammo. I like to be able to get my ammo at the same place I buy my toilet paper and motor oil - Walmart!

Get a 9mm or .40 and practice your shot placement. Problem solved.

I can't seem to find any ammo at Walmart

What Walmart are you shopping at, there hasn't been a Walmart in the surrounding area with ammo for months!

[hybrid]

I absolutely freaking love the 10mm cartridge, not sure but I think the only one who loads the 10mm to spec is double tap.

you can shoot .40s just buy the barrel, in glocks I think you can even shoot .357sig if you buy the barrel too.

[Siafu]

What Walmart are you shopping at, there hasn't been a Walmart in the surrounding area with ammo for months!

Buffalo NY. My Walmart has plenty of 9mm, .40, .45 as well as .38 (and even some .380 if you are there at the right time). Maybe because pistol permits are so hard to get in NY that our stores have inventory that more lenient states are sold out of.

You cannot just buy handgun ammo here without showing your CCW permit. And there are not many CCW permit holders.

[gglockster]

From a technical perspective, the 10mm is an excellent caliber. One of the reasons that the FBI selected it is that it had a lot more potential for future technical innovation than the other calibers that the FBI was evaluating. Historically, the 10mm was selected to overcome some (perceived) deficiencies in the 9mm parabellum when shooting through heavy clothing and/or through light cover such as a car. It was in part that as a new round that there was a perception that there was more performance potential with the 10mm than with the venerable 45 ACP. IMHO it was this new coolness factor that helped swing the FBI over to the 10mm.

S&W by developing the 40 S&W that could be fired from a modified 9mm frame, effectively ended the 10mm development cycle before it could really begin. Manufactures continue to innovate with the 9mm, 40 S&W, and the 45 ACP platforms. I and I think a lot of 10mm loyalists still consider the 10mm to be a round that has not yet reached its full technical potential. IMHO I consider the 10mm to be versatile from the short barrel (under 5 inch Government style) all the way up to carbine platforms (decent performance at over 100 yards from a 16 inch barrel).

10mm ammunition is expensive. With the recent surge in all ammunition prices, 10mm ammunition is on a relative basis not that much more expensive than other more popular calibers. Although I am not a reloader, I would consider 10mm to be a perfect caliber to experiment with.

The following website has a great deal of good information on the 10mm, the actual link I pasted below, points to a discussion on why shooting 40 S&W out of a 10mm can be considered a bad idea:

The Gun Zone -- 10mm v. .40 S&W FAQ

Except for the cost, shooters that have actually experienced the 10mm tend to like it. There are some very hot loads available in commercial ammunition. Although there is the legendary story that small handed FBI shooters had problems with recoil management with the 10mm, it is difficult to find a verifiable first hand account. I find the recoil from a Kimber stainless Government model in 10mm to be "more satisfying" than from a Government model 45 ACP. I do get those "shooters envy" looks when shooting steel plates. The 10mm excels in these types of challenges. A friend of mine once went wild boar hunting successfully with a S&W 610 in 10mm (6 inch barrel N frame revolver). A buddy of his drove the ATV and he fired from the rear.

Vltor weapons systems intends to reintroduce the Bren Ten. If you search through the threads here then you will find at least two discussions on the 10mm. One seems to be more ammunition related and the other seems to be more firearms related.