LA Sheriff's dept report wide spread problems with S&W M&P's. (Merged)

[RSViper]

I almost bought a Smith M&P 9mm compact. I'm glad I didn't. I still don't trust Smith & Wesson. It could be just some manufacturing issues and not an issue with the gun. Not worth the risk, glad I went glock.


Officer Safety: Smith & Wesson M&P pistols - M4Carbine.net Forums

FROM: XXXX 04/29/09 12:40:15

SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT BROADCASTANNOUNCEMENT TRAINING BUREAU
WEAPONS TRAINING
TO: ALL CONCERNED PERSONNEL

SUBJECT: OFFICER SAFETY ALERT - SMITH & WESSON M&P PISTOLS

RECENT DEVELOPMENTS HAVE FORCED A DEPARTMENTAL RE-EVALUATION OF THE SMITH & WESSON 9MM M&P SEMI-AUTOMATIC PISTOL AS AN AUTHORIZED OPTIONAL HANDGUN FOR SWORN PERSONNEL.

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, THE SMITH & WESSON 9MM M&P FULL SIZE PISTOL IS NO LONGER AN AUTHORIZED OPTIONAL ON-DUTY PISTOL.

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, THE SMITH & WESSON 9MM M&P COMPACT PISTOL IS NO LONGER AN AUTHORIZED OPTIONAL OFF-DUTY PISTOL.

SINCE FIRST APPROVAL AS AN OPTIONAL PISTOL ON DECEMBER 10, 2008, THE FULL-SIZED AND/OR COMPACT VERSIONS OF THE 9MM SMITH & WESSON M&P PISTOL HAVE BEEN DEPLOYED BY 49 SWORN PERSONNEL ON AND OFF DUTY. ONE OF THESE PISTOLS WAS DELIVERED NEW WITH AN IMPROPERLY MACHINED BARREL THAT WOULD NOT EJECT SPENT CARTRIDGE CASINGS. ANOTHER OF THESE PISTOLS EXPERIENCED A BARREL FAILURE IN MID-APRIL OF THIS YEAR. AFTER FIRING LESS THAN 10,000 ROUNDS OF TRAINING AMMUNITION. THIS PISTOL BARREL BROKE INTO TWO PIECES JUST AHEAD OF THE FIRING CHAMBER.

ADDITIONALLY, A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF DEPUTY ACADEMY CLASS #XXX RECRUITS WITH ISSUED NEW SMITH & WESSON 9MM M&P FULL-SIZE PISTOLS HAVE EXPERIENCED PHASE-2 PISTOL MALFUNCTIONS, CAUSED BY SPENT CASINGS FAILING TO EXTRACT FROM BARREL CHAMBERS, DURING THE PAST TWO WEEKS OF TRAINING. CLASS #XXX RECRUITS WILL BE ISSUED BERETTA 92FS PISTOLS ON WEDNESDAY APRIL 29, 2009, AND THEIR M&P PISTOLS REMOVED FROM SERVICE.

PERSONNEL SAFETY AND RELIABLE EQUIPMENT REMAIN OUR PRIMARY CONCERNS.

DIRECT ANY QUESTIONS (remove

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[boricua]

Well, not good news for S&W, but it seems like a prudent course of action under the circumstances.

[jwhite75]

Wow...one of the largest sheriff's agencies in the country pouring salt all over your game, that is not good.

[Landric]

So, LASD is pulling the M&P because of two handguns that malfunctioned and a "significant" (whatever that means, it could be 2 or 3) experiencing failures to extract. Failures to extract can be ammunition or shooter related in addition to being gun problems.

Perhaps LASD got a bad batch, but my experience with the M&P, both issued and personally owned, has been excellent.

[SIXTO]

The had some like issues when they first came out a few years ago, it showed up in a joint testing program I was a part of. I wrote about it here way back then, but got blasted. Oh well.

[sheepdog]

I think if I was Smith I'd have a factory engineer/armorer RIGHT out there on this, like Glock did with the 19s out in NY some years ago. This seems like a high failure rate, and the whole batch needs attention...but I'm not an engineer.

[bradktn]

I'm not saying this is not accurate, but I'm not ready to vilify Smith and Wesson based on a cut and pasted email posted on a forum. "But I read it on the internet..."

[ToddG]

I almost bought a Smith M&P 9mm compact. I'm glad I didn't. I still don't trust Smith & Wesson. It could be just some manufacturing issues and not an issue with the gun. Not worth the risk, glad I went glock.

You realize that teletypes like this have gone out announcing problems with Glocks (and every other major LE handgun brand) in the past too, right?

There are hundreds and hundreds of police departments which have adopted the M&P over the past few years. How many are reporting problems? Are the problems LASD mentioned in its teletype being seen anywhere else?

I can tell you from personal experience that when LASD has had issues with pistols in the past, it did not result in an automatic teletype broadcast. So there is a human politics element at play here.

[SIXTO]

I agree, I cant see everything being sent around via the net. Was this really a teletype? If so, whats it doing here?

I will say that we had some with extractor problems, but a lot of them were a result of improper assembly.

[rpm64]

I own the full size M&P9 and M&P45, both with tritium sights. The 9 is about 6 months old with thousands of rounds through it. I has never FTFeed,FTFire,or FTEject for me. I have used a variety of ammo from hardball to +P+ and they all function perfectly. Recently I read an article on DownRange.com about a test putting 50k rounds though an M&P9 with no significant problems or failures. I for one love the weapon and my shot groups continue to tighten the more I shoot it. I haven't put much ammo through the M&P45 due to the cost of ammo but have had no problems so far. I would love to try the compact M&P9 but until I can afford it I will have to stay with my Keltec PF9 for concealed carry. It too, has worked well for me once I learned to do deal with the recoil.

Good Shooting to all,

[jwhite75]

So, LASD is pulling the M&P because of two handguns that malfunctioned and a "significant" (whatever that means, it could be 2 or 3) experiencing failures to extract. Failures to extract can be ammunition or shooter related in addition to being gun problems.

Perhaps LASD got a bad batch, but my experience with the M&P, both issued and personally owned, has been excellent.

They had a BARREL BREAK INTO TWO PIECES...simply unacceptable for a premier manufacturer like Smith.

[ASSA9]

I'm not saying this is not accurate, but I'm not ready to vilify Smith and Wesson based on a cut and pasted email posted on a forum. "But I read it on the internet..."

Agreed, I'll not be selling mine M&P9C any time soon.
I'll wait for a recall before I get worried.

[Tye_Defender]

Agreed, I'll not be selling mine M&P9C any time soon.
I'll wait for a recall before I get worried.

But they are dangerous. You could be hurt very badly. If you send the gun to me I will "dispose" of it appropriately for a nominal fee......

<silence>

Well, tell you what. You seem like a nice guy. I'll waive the fee....

<silence>

I'll throw in free shipping.....

I'll even give you $100 for your trouble.....

$200....

$400....

Wow, looks like prices haven't dropped much. I was really hoping to take advantage of this "crisis" to pick up a good gun cheap.

[old grunt]

Wow! I ALWAYS felt Smith was a REVOLER COMPANY FOREMOST(the stupid 'lawyer locks'aside)and that is the product one should buy from them..however, it is shocking to hear about these M&P issues with the LA Co.Sheriff's Department. "Monday guns", maybe? Hopefully, S&W will come out with an explaination for this....and DUMP THOSE LOCKS WHILE THEY'RE AT IT!!!

[ToddG]

Recently I read an article on DownRange.com about a test putting 50k rounds though an M&P9 with no significant problems or failures.

Yeah, I heard something about that, too.

They had a BARREL BREAK INTO TWO PIECES...simply unacceptable for a premier manufacturer like Smith.

(1) Do you know for certain that other "premier manufacturer(s)" have never suffered a similar problem? (hint: they have)

(2) Do you know for certain what ammunition was used, what condition the gun was in, etc.?

(3) Even assuming the worst case scenario that there really was a materiel or manufacturing defect on that one gun, do you think that one catastrophic failure out of 300,000+ guns is "simply unacceptable?"