Sig 229 is not drop-safe???

This is a discussion on Sig 229 is not drop-safe??? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; According to this report, Sig 229 failed drop-safe test. http://www.justnet.org/Lists/JUSTNET...lletin2000.pdf...

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Thread: Sig 229 is not drop-safe???

  1. #1
    Member Array razz's Avatar
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    Question Sig 229 is not drop-safe???

    According to this report, Sig 229 failed drop-safe test.

    http://www.justnet.org/Lists/JUSTNET...lletin2000.pdf

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  3. #2
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    I wouldn't worry about the it. How many of each weapon was tested? Just 1 weapon being faulty does not make a trend. If you look close the Sig 229 9mm passed. The Sig 229 .40 cal didn't pass.

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    The OP's link provides info on the tests.

    To satisfy the requirements of NIJ Standard-0112.03 (Revision
    A), both sample pistols of the same manufacturer and model
    must pass all of the following requirements and tests:

    1. User Information. At a minimum, the manufacturer must
    include with each pistol information detailing instructions for
    field disassembly/assembly and diagram(s) identifying all
    parts; cleaning instructions; a description of each safety
    feature designed into the pistol; a statement on ammunition
    known to be beyond the design limits of the pistol; and how
    a parts list may be obtained.
    Manufacturers may supply any other information that they
    believe may be needed by the user for proper and safe
    operation of their handgun.

    2. Visual Inspection. The pistol must meet the following visual
    inspection requirements:
    a. Hammer Travel. In the single action mode, if present,
    the hammer shall have sufficient over-travel to assure
    achievement of the full cocked position.
    b. Particles. There shall be no loose chips, shavings, or
    filings in the pistol.
    c. Surface. The pistol shall have no chips, scratches, or
    burrs. There shall be no sharp edges or corners that
    could cut the shooter’s hand while firing or during manual
    cycling of the pistol.

    3. Dimensional Requirements.
    a. Barrel Bore Dimensions. The barrel bore diameter shall
    be in accordance with Sporting Arms and Ammunition
    Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI) Standards for the
    caliber for which the pistol is chambered.
    b. Headspace. The headspace shall be in accordance with
    SAAMI Standards for the caliber for which the pistol is
    chambered.

    4. Functional Requirements.
    a. Action. The slide shall operate smoothly without binding
    or sticking when operated by hand or during firing tests.
    b. Ejection. The ejection mechanism shall eject cases
    without hangup and without hitting the shooter during the
    ejection test or the firing tests, except as provided in
    Sections 4.6 and 4.8.
    c. Trigger.
    1. The single action trigger pull force shall be not less
    than 13 N (3 lbf) nor more than 36 N (8 lbf) when
    tested.*
    2. The double action trigger pull force shall be no more
    than 80 N (18 lbf) when tested.*
    3. For a pistol employing a striker fire mechanism, the
    trigger pull force shall be not less than 22 N (5 lbf) nor
    more than 67 N (15 lbf) when tested.*
    Table 1 The test
    d. Hammer. When tested, the hammer shall operate
    smoothly without binding and shall not release under an
    applied load of 46 N +– 1 N (10 lbf +– 1/4 lbf).
    e. Safety Features. The pistol shall have one or more
    design features to prevent inadvertent firing. Active (user
    activated) safety devices, if provided, shall be designed
    so that the pistol can be made fire-ready by releasing the
    safety(s) with the shooting hand. The pistol shall not fire
    when tested with the safety feature(s) engaged.
    f. Magazine. The magazine shall have a capacity of six
    rounds, minimum, and shall be capable of being released
    without removing the shooting hand from the pistol.

    5. Model Qualification Firing Requirement. When tested in
    accordance with Section 5.6.1, the pistol shall fire 600
    rounds of ammunition with no structural or mechanical
    failures and no more than five malfunctions. Of the five
    allowable malfunctions, no more than three shall be firing
    malfunctions not attributable to faulty ammunition.

    6. Drop Safety Requirement. The pistol is dropped from a
    height of 4 feet onto a 1-inch-thick rubber mat, backed by
    concrete. The pistol shall not fire (cartridge with a live primer,
    but no bullet) during the drop test. The following seven drops
    are required for each of the pistols constituting the sample:
    1. Normal firing position; barrel horizontal.
    2. Upside down; barrel horizontal.
    3. On grip; barrel vertical.
    4. On muzzle; barrel vertical.
    5. On left side; barrel horizontal.
    6. On right side; barrel horizontal.
    7. If there is an exposed hammer or striker, on the rearmost
    point of that device; otherwise on the rearmost point of
    the pistol. Alternately, a weight equivalent to that of the
    pistol may be dropped onto the rearmost point.
    Firing of the primer on any drop constitutes failure of the
    test.

    7. Drop Function Requirement. After completing the drops
    specified in the drop safety test, examine the pistols for
    damage and note any cracks, chips, or other visible
    damage. For those pistols that passed the drop safety test
    without structural damage or damage that will affect the safe
    and proper functioning of the pistol, insert a fully loaded
    magazine, chamber a round, and point the pistol into a bullet
    trap or other suitable device. Fire until the ammunition has
    been expended. Release the magazine (note any sticking or
    binding), reload, and repeat until 20 rounds have been fired.
    Note any misfires or malfunctions. If there are more than
    three malfunctions, repeat the 20-round firing test. If there
    are no more than three malfunctions during the repeat firing
    test, the pistol meets the requirements of this test.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  5. #4
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    LOL, my 228 has been dropped plenty of times.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array JimmyC4's Avatar
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    Well, don't drop it then!
    "It's a big gun when I carry it, it is also a big gun when I take it out” – Clint Smith

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    If it were an issue with the platform, I would think that the 9mm would have failed too. They are essentially the same firearm.

  8. #7
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    The basic design of the SIG P-series is about as drop-safe as it gets. Obviously any mechanical system can fail, but I do find myself raising a skeptical eyebrow at that result...
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

    SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.

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    Member Array wine6978's Avatar
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    Well I know from experience that this is wrong. I have a 229 in .40 it has been dropped, and it did not go bang. Scared the hell outta me and has only happened once.
    You can't go through life being afraid!!

    Sig 229 .40, Taurus 605 .357, Keltec P32

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    The results also indicate that the P229 in .40 failed the firing test. To me this would indicate that there was a flaw in the individual firearm being tested. Any manufacturer can have a faulty part in a gun. That's why I, and many others, fire several hundred rounds through a gun before we feel it is ready for carry.
    George

    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein

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    VIP Member Array maclean3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr_cmg View Post
    The results also indicate that the P229 in .40 failed the firing test. To me this would indicate that there was a flaw in the individual firearm being tested. Any manufacturer can have a faulty part in a gun. That's why I, and many others, fire several hundred rounds through a gun before we feel it is ready for carry.
    George pretty much said it all there. I'm curious, do you live in an area or a situation where that testing will determine what you're allowed to buy or carry? If so then get the 9mm 229 if you're set on the Sig, there are plenty of quality defensive loads that make the 9mm a viable option. If not, don't worry about it. Any gun can fail, the only one that really counts is yours.
    Jack

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    1 test gun does not mean every P229/.40 is unsafe....i find the results misleading
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  13. #12
    Member Array ecrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr_cmg View Post
    The results also indicate that the P229 in .40 failed the firing test. To me this would indicate that there was a flaw in the individual firearm being tested. Any manufacturer can have a faulty part in a gun. That's why I, and many others, fire several hundred rounds through a gun before we feel it is ready for carry.
    They claim to use two weapons, of the same make, model, and calibre. This is to preclude a problem with a single weapon.
    It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. - David Hume

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    Others have already said, but...the results are meaningless. If you've ever studied statistics (or just have good comon sense) you know to take a sample siaze of "1" with less then even a grain of salt.

    It could be that by pure coincidence this study chose the one P229 out of a million that would fail...or maybe a high percentage would fail. You can't estimate from one sample

    A statistically significant result would require testing a number of samples appropriate in relation to the size of the population; using statistially appropriate methods of sample selection (to ensure randomness, and minimize bias.

    Then it would be fair to extrapolate (projectP the results to the entire population, providing a confidence interval (range) and a margin of error (chances that the stats are wrong).

    Statistics...

  15. #14
    Member Array doobie's Avatar
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    I believe if you drop it and the grips chip that's consider a failure... if it falls on the right angle, you are going to chip the grip or finish somewhere.
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  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecrist View Post
    They claim to use two weapons, of the same make, model, and calibre. This is to preclude a problem with a single weapon.
    That sounds good, but the 9mm passed the test. It seems not just odd, but down right strange that two 9s would pass and two .40s would fail. They are built of the same material in the same factory. I'm not saying that two couldn't fail, I'm just questioning the whole idea of having 8 Sig firearms tested (2 each 9mm P229, .357SIG SP2340, .40 P229, and .45 P220) and having the two .40 P229s fail. It does seem to be realistic.
    George

    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein

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