Judge???

This is a discussion on Judge??? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; First let me thank all who answered my post "Upgraded" yesterday where I said I ordered a Judge. Now I fully realize I am probably ...

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Thread: Judge???

  1. #1
    New Member Array quincy's Avatar
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    Judge???

    First let me thank all who answered my post "Upgraded" yesterday where I said I ordered a Judge. Now I fully realize I am probably the least experienced shooter here and do not for a minute think I know more than the far more experienced members of this forum.

    I would like to state my case and ask you all to weigh my reasons here and tell me if I am really that far off the mark.

    I did not cancel my order and am still looking forward to receiving my Judge ss model with the 2 1/2" chamber and 3" barrell and here is why.

    I have been feeling more and more the need for protection, especially when the wife and I venture too far from the Western North Carolina hills and started with a .380 Bersa which I have been told is a bit too light for a defensive weapon. It is small and comfortable to carry concealed though and I probably will still do so.

    I realized that this next purchase will probably be my last hand gun, or any gun purchace for that matter as I am really not interested in using guns for any kind of sport at all.

    I see the gun purely as a necessity for protection. I have always had a gun in my night stand, that is where the .380 sits right now and the Judge will be there also when I am home. This brings me to my first reason for the Judge. If I load it with one or two shotgun shells then the rest .45 rounds I feel I have a better chance if I have to point and shoot at someone opening my bedroom door at three am. dragging me out of a sound sleep.

    Now when I leave the house the Judge can go in the holster and when in the car on a long trip under the seat or in the glove box, I believe one poster said it made a decent car gun. There again in a split second decision I may have to point and shoot at a hijacker and the shotgun shell seems to be the right choice there.

    Now. in any of these situations or in one where I may have more time to think if I need the .45 I can squeeze the trigger twice or rotate the chamber.

    I can see the Judge going on my hip only long enough to get me to the car and back to the house or, when traveling from the car to where ever I might be going. In any case I can still bring the Bersa along for that.

    I really defer to you the experts but for my situation I think this will do just fine.

    In any case please dont hesitate to point out where I am wrong I have thick skin and an open mind,

    As I said, thanks for all your input,

    Q

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    I owned a Judge and it will probably be fine for you. The .410's may work ok in warm climates but unless you get a face shot, they aren't going to stop anyone wearing a winter coat. I wouldn't want to volunteer someone to shoot me at 10ft wearing a winter coat to try it out but don't think you are going to blast a hole through someone unless you use the .45LC's

    P.S. Make sure you have your gun securely stored in your car. Don't just wedge it between the seats or underneith the seat. If you get in an accident, defensive driving situation, or just a rough road, your gun will disslodge unless secure on your person or in a holster that is secured to the vehicle. (did I say "secure" enough to get the point across??)
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

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  4. #3
    Member Array heylin's Avatar
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    Im by no means an SD expert, but basically you are saying if BG opens your bedroom door and you arent fully awake you are going to start shooting shotgun shells from your judge without identifying your target ? what if it was your wife coming into the room ?.

    I would invest in some pre warning systems even a cheap battery powered motion sensor \ alarm combo in the hallway.

    Hell it might even deter the BG from even coming to your room, but will at least give you the chance to be ready and get into a defensive position in your room.

    Now. in any of these situations or in one where I may have more time to think if I need the .45 I can squeeze the trigger twice or rotate the chamber.
    In an SD situation there is very little time to think let alone rotate a chamber to select a different round type or use valuable ammo to get the .45 rounds. Think of all the things you have to cover in those valuable seconds

    - trigger control
    - grip
    - aim
    - situation awareness (whats behind target, how many BGs, wheres the wife)

    why add more things to the list ?.

    My suggestion (sure others suggested as well) Glock 19 or 26 with a tac light. Something simple to use with plenty of rounds, its easy to conceal, easy to maintain, durable and most importantly easy to use.

    As Ive stated in my previous posts I dont practice home SD (illegal in my country) but ive watched enough instructional videos, read alot of expert posts and assessed my own home to know that a Judge would be low on the list of home defense and CC weapons.

    It just seems like a pointless design when compared to tried and true weapons in the same price range.
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  5. #4
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    At close range, shotshells still have to be aimed.

    Sorry, I see no good defensive use for the Judge.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  6. #5
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    No personal experience with the Judge, but at the distances you are talking about, you can miss with the shot shells just as easily as with the 45LC's or just about any caliber of choice.

    As a car gun the Judge will probably be alright, keeping your bersa for daily carry. There are alot of better choices in both caliber and gun models, to supplement your bersa. IMO

    I would consider a .357, GP-100, SP-101, or the S&W of choice, instead of the Judge, if this is the last gun you will ever buy. OMO
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  7. #6
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    The bottom line is 'what YOU want'.
    You asked for opinions, and everyone has one...and many here will share.
    I would still choose something more concealable, but I'm sure you'll make YOUR choice work for YOU.

    Enjoy shopping...so many guns, so little time.

    Stay armed...with a choice YOU make...stay safe!
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  8. #7
    Member Array Hardcorp's Avatar
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    If you are set on the Judge then go for it ... I'm sure you got turned on to it by the commercials on the Outdoor Channel ... Maybe not.

    But you could do a lot better for the money with a little research...Many of the Glock can be found for <$500 and I know there are many more good choices out there...
    Nothing says more about how you feel, than a lead flower.

  9. #8
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    A lot of people here will pile on the Judge. I don't know of anyone who's OWNED a Judge that didn't like it.

    Welcome to the forum. Be safe and practice. I'm sure you and the Judge will be fine.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

  10. #9
    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
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    As my tennis coach once taught me: Opinions are like rear ends...everyone has one, and most of them are full of *@&#^. :) Usually, though, I find that the guys and gals on DC are top-flite and the collective wisdom is normally spot-on. So you might want to assess your reasons for carrying. If that Judge doesn't fit the bill, I am sure you can sell it for top dollar and get something that will.

    IMO, I would get a HD shotgun (I use a Remington 870 HD) and then carry that little Bersa with a nasty defense round in it. (I prefer Mag Safe Ammo - Pre-Fragmented Saftey Ammunition Handcrafted In The USA SD rounds) Keep that gun on you when you leave the house and you'll be fine. With .380 you need to be sure of shot placement, but the news flash is that shot placement is key with .50 BMG or .500 S&W too.
    "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
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  11. #10
    Member Array heylin's Avatar
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    On the subject of HD guns, I heard that long guns and also shotguns were not the best for the tight confines of a house. Something about BG being able to grab barrel, and harder to clear round corners ??.
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  12. #11
    Member Array thinktwice's Avatar
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    Don't let anyone here talk you out of or discourage you of getting the handgun you want. You will get many different opinions some are really helpful and others don't know anymore of what they are talking about than you or me. Just do a lot of research on your own not just on forums. Most of the comments here are talking about the lack of penetration with a 410 shot shell which I agree with, but I think would be ok for pest and the like. However I haven't heard anyone talking about a 410 slug which I think would make a pretty good defensive tool if you could find the slugs. The slugs for 410 are 1/5 ounce leaving the barrel 1830 fps (depending on the brand and iam sure those stats are from a shotgun barrel) and the "New Judge" will fire the 3 inch 410 so it would be a bit more impressive. By the way the 410 is actually a caliber and not gauge. It's really called .410 bore due to the barrel being .410 inches in width. It has the same bore diameter as a 41 caliber rifle or handgun. Just my .02

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array Pure Kustom's Avatar
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    The judge is a great short distance gun with the shot shells. The Judge was designed to spread in a short distance. My friend has one and he hand loads and really likes the spread. He has a 3" magnum. The only thing I would suggest is to order a 3" chamber instead of a 2 1/2 More choices with a 3"

    Good Luck
    Rocky

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    It is ultimately your decision of course but I think the Judge is a solution in search of a problem. Lets talk about the ballistics here. The numbers Thinktwice gave about velocity and slug weight are correct. That fifth of an ounce is 87.5 grains. But, and here is the important part.... That 1800fps or so is from a twenty four inch barrel! One review of the Winchester 9410 lever action only got 1760fps from 2 3/4 slugs out of a twenty four inch barrel. What can you expect out of three inches? I would estimate those .410 slugs would probably come up short compared with your .380!
    So that leaves you with .45 colt. That most definitely is a fine and capable cartridge. The question in my mind is whether the Judge is the best platform for it. It might be perfect for you, but it just doesn't work for me.
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  15. #14
    Member Array PackN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heylin View Post
    On the subject of HD guns, I heard that long guns and also shotguns were not the best for the tight confines of a house. Something about BG being able to grab barrel, and harder to clear round corners ??.
    Not with the tactical models.They have shorter barrels to help prevent this. Also shorter so you can maneuver around better without bumping into wall...ect Plus the have a strap that you learn how to strap it on so to make it hard to take it away from you. Anyway - I would have to agree on 870 pump for the house and bersa on your hip or in your pocket. If your willing to attempt to conceal a judge - look into a high capacity 9 mm or double stack 45. Way more firepower and easier to conceal IMO.
    Change We Can Believe In 01.20.13 Gun Control is Being Able to Hit Your Target.

  16. #15
    Senior Member Array jca1's Avatar
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    IMHO any firearm is better than no firearm. However, to me the judge and similar firearms are not great defensive weapons, but excellent snake guns (which could prove very useful to you in the NC mountains) unless loaded with .45 colt ammo. None the less, the judge is a great firearm and not a foolish purchase. Heck just the size of it may scare away some BG's who knows? The .410 is not a bad shell, but the .45 colt is a great bullet.

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