This is a discussion on 16 rds 9mm vs 9 rds 45acp within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; What would you choose assuming accuracy, carry weight, speed from draw to target and other variables being equal? Why?...
What would you choose assuming accuracy, carry weight, speed from draw to target and other variables being equal? Why?
This is my take:
From some of the LEOs at the federal level, more specifically a good friend of mine who did many forced entries and arrests with the DEA: Play the gun games with the nines, fight with the 40s and 45s....
I heard almost the same thing verbatim when I used to compete on the USPSA circuit from some of the SPECOPS guys and the Army Marksmanship unit folks like Greg Way who used to shoot at the big area matches.
My personal reasons for carrying the 45 were preference; I grew up in USPSA/IPSC before the equipment races nearly destroyed it. I earned the coveted "M" card with a single stack Springfield .45 ACP, although 2 years later I sold that gun combined the proceeds with savings to build my first STI open gun in .38 super. From time to time, though I pulled out a single stack 45 and competed with it. Why, do you ask would I do that with all of that high-tech hardware at my disposal? Simple - FIRE DISCIPLINE. Back then we had a saying that went "speed wins stages, points win matches"..... Later on, IDPA shooters adopted the adage "you can't miss fast enough". I shot single stacks and revolvers to bring me back to earth and to train myself to count my shots and make my shots count.
Having all that capacity is nice, but it makes no difference if you can't hit what you aim at. To me, I feel just as well armed with 6 rounds of .357 magnum in my fist as I do with my 9x23 winchester STI 2011 with 19 rounds of happiness.....
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry
I can only speak for myself on this matter, but the reason I choose 16 rounds of 9mm versus 9 rounds of .45 acp is because of my arthritis in my wrists and joints. It is easier for me to shoot the 9mm pistols than the .40 S&W or .45 acp ones.
It gets to be too painful to practice often with the larger calibers.
I don't pay attention anymore to the "caliber wars". I believe it is more important to have a gun with you, and one that you can place your shots into the vital organs of an attacker(s). JMHO
God bless our troops!
Oh boy...you've opened the proverbial can o'worms!
I choose 9mm. Why?
Ammo costs less, so I can practice more.
Shot placement counts for more than anything else, and 9mm recoils less (for me), which means faster follow-up shots. I don't plan on only firing one shot and then waiting to see what happens - I will shoot them to the ground...so rapid follow-up shots and controllability are important to me. (This is true of my handguns as well as my long guns - I don't believe in any one-shot guaranteed stop magic bullets.)
Since I plan on shooting them to the ground, ammo capacity is also very important to me.
Criminal attacks by multiple perps is an issue - better to have more ammo than less if you are faced with multiple attackers.
9mm ammo seems more available lately than .45 ACP. It is the most used pistol caliber in the world - available everywhere.
Every test I've seen shows penetration (second only to shot placement) to be virtually identical with 9mm, .40, and .45. What you gain with individually larger holes with the larger calibers, you lose with more recoil (slower follow-up shots) and less ammo capacity. To me, that is a bad trade-off.
In real combat, your accuracy will suffer due to stress. Better to have more ammo, just in case some of your shots miss!
Let's open another can o'worms, shall we? Since you mention 9 rounds of .45, can I assume you mean a 1911? While a fine duty pistol, I don't consider it the best choice for civilian concealed carry, because it has several parts that can snag concealing clothing during the draw - the beavertail, the exposed cocked hammer, and the external manual safety.
I much prefer a DAO pistol, like a Glock, XD, M&P, etc. Simpler, and virtually nothing to snag when drawn from concealment.
Hope this helps. And while some here will disagree with me, I hope they can appreciate my reasoning.
The number of people killed because they didn't have "enough gun" is dwarfed by those who had none at all. Get a gun you will always carry, and add more capability as you grow.
Despite how you put the question, i could never hold a gun that had a mag holding 16 rounds becasue it would be too thick, so for me it's always a single stack gun of some kind. I can shoot the 9 faster and more accurately than the .45 but only slightly so all things considered I'd pick the .45 if the round count was similar because I feel it's a more effective round overall but I wouldn't take it by much.
If I had larger hands and could handle the staggerd mags on a 9, then I proabably would take the 16 9 over the 9 .45's.
It matters not to me. I carry my Glock 26 and my 1911 with equal confidence.
An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray, but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you.
California is the great equalizer...everyone gets 10+1 max. My choice is still 9mm. Rounds are cheap and comfortable.
God is love (1 John 4:8)
I appreciate the input so far... it is good to think through these. The recoil for me personally is the same on both. My 9mm has as many snags as my 45. I do not own any glocks, sigs, xds... yet... I will in time... price for practice is a good point, 9mm is less. The ballistics wars shall continue of course...
Personally I have decided on 9mm for now, but eventually I will probably have both and will likely carry .45 in the summer and 9mm in the winter. .45's don't always get along with leather coats.
"10thmtn, Let's open another can o'worm's, shall we? Since you mention 9 rounds of .45, can [B]I assume you mean a 1911? While a fine duty pistol, I don't consider it the best choice for civilian concealed carry, because it has several parts that can snag concealing clothing during the draw - the beavertail, the exposed cocked hammer, and the external manual safety"
This has been my second time reading your proper gander... we get it YOU DON'T LIKE 1911's
Please give it up already
1:The beavertail is going to be nestled into the hand, there's not going to be enough to snag, and even if there was, given the geometry, how's it going to snag?
2:The exposed, cocked hammer: Is not more a snag magnet than any other hammered pistol, regardless of it being cocked, the hammer almost meets the grip safety while in the cocked position, if anything a spurred hammer of any revolver or Sig would be more likely to snag.
3:The external manual safety: I'm assuming you mean the thumb safety as the beaver tail is another external manual safety, when drawing, your thumb is over the safety pad or lever, unless your thumb gets snagged every time you take your wallet out of your pocket, I don't know how you can snag your own digits in your clothing, anyone using a high thumb grip from the draw would have this problem, and I've yet to hear of one person that had their thumb get caught in anything while drawing.
10thmtn, I have one question. Have you ever carried a 1911 concealed?
I carry at least one extra mag all the time,so I can carry just as much ammo,xtended full size spare mags M&P 45 carry 14 roundsI just have to reload,But most gun fights are over in a matter of seconds
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
You can always have a double stack .45 (maybe .40) caliber handgun.
Here you were comparing a single stack 1911 (8+1) gun to a double stack 9mm
Still less round in the same space but lot more then 8+1
I carry a gun cause I can't carry a cop.