Had an Epiphaney at the Range yesterday...
This is a discussion on Had an Epiphaney at the Range yesterday... within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; At least that's what I think you call it!
Went to practice more with my Colt New Agent. I was firing that and a Kahr ...
July 18th, 2009 05:24 PM
Had an Epiphaney at the Range yesterday...
At least that's what I think you call it!
Went to practice more with my Colt New Agent. I was firing that and a Kahr P9 which was just about my first CCW gun and also my MK9. It was a beautiful day, only 72 degrees, no wind and almost no one there.
I was almost 100 rounds into practicing with the Colt when I had my epiphaney! I sudenly realized that .45 just isn't a good choice for a carry caliber for me!
Now I just stopped while walking back from my target and it was all of a sudden clear to me! I LOVE shooting a .45 but I'm not good at shooting a .45 and for me, there's quite a bit of recoil in the Colt.
I'm a small guy, small hands and I have some wrist issues and it just dawned on me that I really need to keep my guns, my recoil, and my calibers on the small side.
And .45 isn't for me. I also realized that I'm never going to be a serious gun collector or get high end customized guns so I realized that I need to pick a few primary calibers, that I can shoot really well and just focus on those.
As much as I love a .45 (especially a 1911), the truth is I don't like the recoil, it's expensive, and I'm must not as good with it.
I'm also not the kind of guy that can buy a $1,500 1911 and then tweek with it.
I started shooting my kahr p9 that I've had forever. It's only 8 rounds of 9mm but It's actually the most reliable gun I have, right up there with my J frames. But even my P9 has some decent muzzle flip and the checkering on the front strap roughes up my hand pretty good at the range.
So I decided I'm going to get rid of my Colt New Agent. That makes me sad but the truth is I'm just not good with it although I've never loved how a gun looks more.
I'm going to stick with my handful of small J frames and my SP101 so I'm going to stick with .38/.357 and then I'm going to try and find a DLC coated K9, or, buy a regular K9 and then have the front strap checkered and have the whole gun refinished in a black. Right now you just can't find the factorly DLC coated K9's.
I'll probably trade my Colt New Agent in on it and then I'll either keep my MK9 or my P9 but not both. Just seems too redundant to have more than two pistols of the same caliber.
I love guns and if I had the money I'd have safes full of them but truthfully, I really only need some prime choices for CCW. A few 9mm's, a few true pocket carry .380's and my trusted revolvers.
I live and work in a very low risk environment.
The only other thought is that I've dreamed of owning a Springfield EMP because it would be one of my primary calibers but it would also be the 1911 format that I love BUT you see ton's of posts of folks having to get them worked on for reliability and I don't think I can handle spending $1,300 on a gun and then having to send it off so I can shoot JHP.
I'm thinking that the way guns and ammo are likely to go that I'd be better off just consolidating around a few guns and a few primary calibers.
With the Colt gone, and if I can get the Kahr, all of my guns would be the same basic format of DAO with no external safties.
I get caught up in buying new guns and love the research, the shopping and then bringing it home but truth be told I can't afford to shoot all the time and with all the kids and where my life is, I feel it's time to take a more practical, simplified approach.
I always dreamed of getting a high end .45 1911 but that's not really practical for me and although I shoot a full size 1911 better, it's still not a good CCW choice for me due to the simple fact that I shoot a 9mm a LOT better.
Sorry to ramble and it probably sounds crazy but I think I just turned a corner or something. I can buy some bulk 9 mm JHP and ball ammo over the next year or two and stock enough for CCW for quite a while.
I'm still trying to get a lever action Marlin .357 so I have a long gun in that caliber and then, I guess I'll call it good.
So, I'm going to talk to my dealer about finding a home for my Colt and getting me a K9 that's blackened and has night sights. If that does, I have some really nice holsters and mag carriers for a .45 along with some Wilson mags.
I wonder if any of you ever did the same? I know if my kids were all grown and I was well off then I'd simply spend the money and enjoy all kinds of weapons but I think I really just need a select few that are good for CCW.
Anyway, just feels good getting it off the chest although I'll be sad giving up the .45. I thought about just trying to get a full size to use for the home or something else but I found myself doing the same thing I'd been doing...simply rationalizing why I was going to pick a gun or caliber because I just liked the gun or the caliber, not necesarily becasue I was good with it or because it was a good choice.
With my Colt I shoot 5", 8", or even 10" groups. It's partly recoil, partly the grip. With my Kahr MK9, I wear out a 2" hole. My colt will still have a FTF once in a blue moon, even with ball ammo and I suspect it's limp wristing. And my Colt still is REAL finicky about JHP.
My P9 on the other hand will shoot anything and always has. So I'm thinking the K9 will be as reliable but give the better grip. The K9's soft grip is the best I've ever held for fitting my hand. The weight of the K9, the Colt, and the Springfield EMP are all within about an ounce of each other.
At the end of the day it has to conceal well on "ME", and "I" have to be able to shoot it really well. We all agree that 8 rounds of 9mm that you can place well are better than 8 rounds of .45 that may be off.
I'm not sure exactly which direction I'm taking but I do think it's going to focus on .38/.357, 9mm, and .380 and just a few key guns in each caliber.
Anyway, sorry for the long post. Have a great weekend all and be safe!
July 18th, 2009 06:13 PM
It's funny sometimes how difficult it is to see something that is staring you right in the face - I've had moments like that myself. See you're still searching for a DLC'd K9 - I am as well and have been since we were both drooling over that K40 w/ wood grips someone posted here a few months back.
Glock 19, 26 & 36 | Kahr K9 & PM9 | S&W M&P9c, 642 & 640 | Ruger LCP
July 18th, 2009 08:48 PM
I think that if you are going to play, then play with all of the toys.
But, if you are serious about your self defense, do what you just decided. Focus your time and resources on what is going to work best to save your life and maybe the lives of the ones you love.
*WARNING - I may or may not know what I am talking about.
July 18th, 2009 09:52 PM
I have small hands also. I went from a USPC45 to a SW340PD, to a G23, to a G30, to a SAPC9111. I tried 45ACP, 38SPL, 357MAG, 40S&W, 9MM, back to 45ACP. I went from medium sized gun, to compact, back to medium, and on to large. So far I thought I found the one, then I tried a damn HK45. The trigger, ohman, I tell ya.
Make sure 1) you are combat effective with it, 2) the gun is reliable, and 3) that it fits you well (you'll be carrying the damn thing everywhere), then worry about the rest (caliber, size, etc). Try to rent before you buy though, I't will save you money in the long run.
I can no longer keep track of threads as I used to. If you need to contact me, PM me instead of asking me something in the thread. Disclaimer - No legal advice issued anywhere. Take care.
July 18th, 2009 10:21 PM
Just one question...a 1911 is too much recoil, but a "J" frame is OK???
Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.
July 18th, 2009 10:27 PM
I have done much the same over the years.....had all the toys, and have settled on just a few calibers. Sometimes it just makes good sense and you know it is a good decision.
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people; it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government--lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." --Patrick Henry
NRA Endowment Member
July 18th, 2009 11:59 PM
I came to that same conclusion about 6 years ago. I have been carrying 9mm ever since. 9mm is just the one that fits me the best. I love my .45's, and shoot them well, but I can drive tacks with my 9's.
July 19th, 2009 12:03 AM
Yeah I know what you mean about the J frame. I have a no-lock 642; when I shoot that it's never with +p. I've picked up a pre-lock 6-12 that's all stainless and it handles the recoil a lot better. I've done a LOT of shooting to get proficient with a J frame and I'm "okay" with them but I'm actually pretty good with my SP101.
I guess our carry preferences and needs really are an evolution!
July 19th, 2009 12:48 AM
I have to commend you for your honesty with yourself. There is nothing wrong with a 9mm as that is what I exclusively shoot. Almost every single person who has busted me about 9mm's tend to get a case of CHS (Can't hit stuff) when we get to the range. Take it easy on yourself and you body.
Last edited by CopperKnight; July 19th, 2009 at 11:37 AM.
Reason: adjusted language
Ccccccc what? Ccccccccccc Hawks!
July 19th, 2009 11:17 AM
Don't forget all the things that figure into gun control and recail such as grip size, shape and angle; and a bunch of other stuff...
Originally Posted by AZ Husker
EOD - Initial success or total failure
July 19th, 2009 01:05 PM
Thank god your Epiphany didn't require immediate medical help,I had one once when I realised getting broadsided on a motorcycle at 40 MPH hurts.The one thing about guns I have learnded is that what looks cool and works for others may not work for you and when It comes to SD shot placement is everything
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
July 19th, 2009 01:18 PM
J frame recoil
Its really odd. Perception and individual preference are such a big part of the issue.
Originally Posted by AZ Husker
I get annoyed with the sharp recoil and muzzle flip on my .40; but I have no issue with a j frame. I can shoot that all day. My son OTOH, complains about his hands hurting after about 20 rnds through a J frame, but doesn't mind the .40.
There is more going on than just the energetics. It involves individual differences in the design of our hands and wrists--- or so I would guess.
July 19th, 2009 01:20 PM
Nothing wrong with 9mm. And just think of the money you'll save on ammo.
64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.
July 19th, 2009 03:10 PM
You could do a lot worse than your MK9 as your EDC. Apparently, you shoot that one quite well, and with the all-steel frame, it mitigates the recoil. I plan to get one of those myself one of these days.
"We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters
July 19th, 2009 07:07 PM
You're right about the MK9 Rod. It's comfortable to shoot for extended time at the range due to the weight. And it's by far the most concealable IWB gun I've got. The sights are good and even though it's only a two finger grip, I still find it very shootable and I do shoot it a bit better than the P9. I think it would be absolutely perfect if the front strap had 30 lpi checkering. I've written to a few places to see if they can do it and for how much.
My P9 is a great weapon but it does have a little muzzle flip and the checkering will rough up your hand pretty good.
I've tried an "Agrip" on it and that makes it much better, however, after about 2 years of carrying and a LOT of sweat, the Agrip was getting pretty gunked up and actually was sliding between the grip and where the mag goes in. So I've just ordered another Agrip to replace the old one.
And for my friend who also covets a DLC coated K9; I've written to kahr to ask if they're still producing them and how often as I just can't find anyone who can even order one. I'll post the answer if I get one. The other option is to buy a regular K9 and then ship it off for checkering, night sights, and some kind of black refinishing.
Thanks for all the inputs guys!
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