Taurus Public Defender concerns

Taurus Public Defender concerns

This is a discussion on Taurus Public Defender concerns within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; While I'm not a major fan of Taurus, I do have 2 of the original Judges. In eastern NC they make a fine general purpose ...

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Thread: Taurus Public Defender concerns

  1. #1
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    Taurus Public Defender concerns

    While I'm not a major fan of Taurus, I do have 2 of the original Judges. In eastern NC they make a fine general purpose field gun. The point is, I know a bit about the Taurus Judge. Yeah yeah, many believe that it's a novelty gun. I don't want to go down that road.

    I took a look at the new version, the Public Defender (hopefully I remembered the name correctly). Interesting....Taurus doesn't even have it on their website but I've seen two of them. Basic differences;

    - Barrel approx 1" shorter so it's a 2" barrel
    - Grip is shorter so it only provides a 2 finger grip
    - Hammer is bobbed

    I'd be careful with this one. Accuracy is tough enough with the Judge though it's hardly a 25 yard gun anyway. A shorter barrel won't offer much. The 3 finger grip on the Judge is pretty much a necessity. It bucks a little bit. They're certainly manageable, but you do have to manage it. The thing that concerned me most was the bobbed hammer. Both of the guns I inspected had such an incredibly tough hammer pull that safely lowering the hammer on a live round might prove to be EXTREMELY difficult. Particularly with the bobbed hammer. I didn't feel at all comfortable with a minimum purchase on the hammer. If you're in the market for that kind of gun, the original Judge works just fine. You're not saving much in going with the Defender and I think it's going to be a handful and a real safety concern.
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  2. #2
    Member Array DocGlock's Avatar
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    With a bobbed hammer, why would you be lowering it on a live round? It's supposed to be used double-action only. If you want to use it single-action, you get a non-bobbed hammer.

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    Fine point. But there are those times when you want the option to not fire. They do make a hammer-less Judge. That is clearly DA only. In my thinking, a hammer, bobbed or not, implies DA or SA. And this one is an AD waiting to happen. OK....out of acronyms. I'll stop.
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    Quote Originally Posted by svgheartland View Post
    Fine point. But there are those times when you want the option to not fire. They do make a hammer-less Judge. That is clearly DA only. In my thinking, a hammer, bobbed or not, implies DA or SA. And this one is an AD waiting to happen. OK....out of acronyms. I'll stop.
    Then (if you don't cock it) you just don't pull the trigger...the original question given by DocGlock...and my questons, also.
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  5. #5
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    Hey guys, ok already. I can foresee how some will attempt to handle the gun and I'm trying to give caution, that's all. Suppose to help each other out aren't we? Didn't mean to touch on bobbed hammer, DA sensitivities. I think I did recommend a Judge w/a full hammer. And my question to you is; Why a hammer at all if it's intended as DA only?
    Savage Heartland

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    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    What I'm hearing him say is that IF you cock the hammer, and then don't pull the trigger to fire, it is dangerous to release the hammer manually. Period.

  7. #7
    Member Array DocGlock's Avatar
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    It's much cheaper to bob the hammer compared to designing and installing a shroud to cover it. My guess would be that the bobbed hammer is a $0 option (or close to $0). Also, what is the plan for getting it cocked for single action use? Pull the trigger half-way so you can grab the hammer? That's where the first potential for disaster is.

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    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    For anyone interested, the Public Defender is on the Taurus web site, it's just buried in their new products catalog.

    In fairness to the OP, Taurus refers to the hammer as a "reduced profile hammer" and I don't see anywhere that they refer to the gun as DAO. In fact, in the specs they refer to the action as SA/DA. While I only have the photo to look at, it also appears that there are serrations on what little bit of a hammer spur that is visible.

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    Thanks for the link cvhoss.

    To the OP for his question about the newer version of the Judge. Nothing personal, but what was the purpose of the original Judge. IMO, you hit the nail on the head when you referred to the novelty of the gun. I have nothing against Taurus, as there is one on my hip right now, but the Judge, and this new Public Defender serve no real purpose. Even for an up close and personal gun there are many that will do just as well in a much smaller package. If you want the large package, there are many that are better.

    As far as the hammer goes, what difference does it make. From the looks of the picture there is enough there to release it from the SA mode if it got cocked and needed to be decocked.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    Sorry, but I just can't warm up to The Judge, much less the Public Defender.

    The thing that confuses me is the whole .410 shotshell/.45LC combo... it seems to me that you'd need a really good reason to want a .410 pistol before you would even consider a Judge... I'm trying to figure out what that would be? If you wanted to use 'shot shells' for snakes, .357 magnum shot shells are available, and a .357 magnum seems much better suited for either purpose - shot shell and certainly conventional pistol rounds (to me, at least) than The Judge.

    I know you said you didn't want to go this route, but to me it is a novelty - although a novelty that can serve a purpose. I just think a .357 magnum revolver or a .44 special / .44 magnum revolver (with shot shells, if desired) serves those purposes far better. Just my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by svgheartland View Post
    In eastern NC they make a fine general purpose field gun. The point is, I know a bit about the Taurus Judge. Yeah yeah, many believe that it's a novelty gun. I don't want to go down that road.

    I took a look at the new version, the Public Defender (hopefully I remembered the name correctly). Interesting....Taurus doesn't even have it on their website but I've seen two of them. Basic differences;

    - Barrel approx 1" shorter so it's a 2" barrel
    - Grip is shorter so it only provides a 2 finger grip
    - Hammer is bobbed

    I'd be careful with this one. Accuracy is tough enough with the Judge though it's hardly a 25 yard gun anyway. A shorter barrel won't offer much. The 3 finger grip on the Judge is pretty much a necessity. It bucks a little bit. They're certainly manageable, but you do have to manage it. The thing that concerned me most was the bobbed hammer. Both of the guns I inspected had such an incredibly tough hammer pull that safely lowering the hammer on a live round might prove to be EXTREMELY difficult. Particularly with the bobbed hammer. I didn't feel at all comfortable with a minimum purchase on the hammer. If you're in the market for that kind of gun, the original Judge works just fine. You're not saving much in going with the Defender and I think it's going to be a handful and a real safety concern.

  11. #11
    Member Array 45XDCCW's Avatar
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    My Father fell in Love with the judge the moment he sall the video on youtube of Taurus advertising it. He instantly had to have one, Now I have shot it, and heartland you are right, its got a lil kick to it, and the shorter barrel and handle are going to make that harder to control, Thank you for the warning, I had yet to see the Public Defender, despite the catchy name, I cant see this being a big seller either.

    As far as the Judge goes, I Love it with the 3 inch chamber.... It is a novelty gun, but from my experience and the only reason I Want one is to keep in the truck next to the seat. I think it would serve well right there for car defense.

    I dont know If yall have seen the new ammo Federal Made just for the judge but here it is. WHAT I WANNA KNOW is what is different about this ammo, the regular buck shot?

    Federal Premium - Shotshell Details
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    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    question about 410 capability

    It's my understanding that the second generation judge is chambered to accept a 3" .410 shell as opposed to the original 2-1/2 shell. Is this correct? and if so, why would anyone want to go back to the 2-1/2 .410?
    I remember one of my first shooting experiences, I borrowed my mothers .410 shotgun to shoot trap with my older cousin. All I had was 2-1/2 inch shells. Couldn't break a single clay. There just isn't enough pellets in a 2-1/2 inch shell. Even borrowing a couple of 3" shells only got me one hit. Granted this was my first time shooting a shotgun and I wasn't very good. I am still not a shotgun person, I guess I just need that rear sight!

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    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    It's my understanding that the second generation judge is chambered to accept a 3" .410 shell as opposed to the original 2-1/2 shell. Is this correct? and if so, why would anyone want to go back to the 2-1/2 .410?
    I remember one of my first shooting experiences, I borrowed my mothers .410 shotgun to shoot trap with my older cousin. All I had was 2-1/2 inch shells. Couldn't break a single clay. There just isn't enough pellets in a 2-1/2 inch shell. Even borrowing a couple of 3" shells only got me one hit. Granted this was my first time shooting a shotgun and I wasn't very good. I am still not a shotgun person, I guess I just need that rear sight!
    As you'll see, most of the Judge models available are still chambered for 2 1/2" shells. Of the 7 models shown here, 6 have 2 1/2" chambers.

    I believe your past experience with 2 1/2" shells was due more to it being your first time shooting a shotgun. For breaking aerial targets, the .410 definitely isn't a beginner's gun. As a teenager, I used to be able to consistently break clays with my Dad's .410 Iver-Johnson single shot with a 2 1/2" chamber. I was actually more accurate with it than with my 16 ga. pump but that was probably due to the mental aspect of only having one shell with no backup for a miss.

    If the Judge were a $300.00 gun instead of a $500.00+ gun, I'd have one just for the heck of it. If I lived in rattlesnake country, I'd have one even with the higher price tag. Having shot both, I can promise you it is a mistake to believe that handgun shotshells from a .357 or .44 are on the same par as a .410 shotgun shell. It's not even close.

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    Hoss....thanx for clarification. I thought about it this afternoon and realized that I wasn't clear on my description. My apologies. The hammer is not "bobbed" in the sense that I had the "hammer on my S&W snubbie bobbed". It's still very pronouned, checkered for purchase, etc. It's there and seemingly there for a purpose. It's just not enough for reasonable handling of the gun IMO. I believe it to be a concern.

    The Judge is a fairly handy sidekick but sure, it can be matched for shot mixed w/lead by 357's and 44's, etc. The 410 delivers more from a shot pattern than you'll find in the CCI shot loads for 357 based on my own experiences. Can't speak to the 44's. My preference for the original Judge that handles 2 1/2" over 3" is that it's reasonably mainstream, that you can find holsters, etc for it. The newer 3" models....I'm not sure.

    Forgetting about the novelty aspect, I've found the Judge to be pretty handy. And frankly, I use it as a tool. I climb deer stands, carry it on the tractor, bang it on stuff, etc. Things I wouldn't do with a nice S&W 357/44 model. Because I don't care, I haven't scratched it yet. I treat it as a field/work gun. And it's fun and cheaper to shoot than CCI shot loads in a 357.

    Anyway, sorry for not being clear on the bobbed hammer business.
    Savage Heartland

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    One more thing regarding the Judge. I've had pretty good results busting clays w/the Judge in 2 1/2" (about 50%). I don't think I could do that w/shot loads in a 357 or 44. It's a blast....but you'd better be quick. It's not easy. And don't shoot your thrower getting too anxious. I doubt he'd care for it much.

    The Federal ammo that 45XDCCW spoke about...the only thing that's different about this 2 1/2" ammo is that it's 4 pellet buckshot vs. 3 shot that you typically find. Both claim 000 shot so I don't know how they do it. 3 shot triple fills the shells in a 2 1/2" as best I can tell but then....I'm just a schmuck.
    Savage Heartland

    What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about?

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