Calling all PM9 owners - need help

[10thmtn]

I posted this within another thread, but got few responses, so I'll try this as its own thread...

I have a PM9 that is up for sale, due to a reliability issue (read on). That said, I'd ask for all your help in running this test, to see if it is a design issue, or an issue with my specific 2 PM9s (one that got returned and its replacement). That will help me determine if I should keep (and attempt to fix) this gun, or go on and sell it.

Safely please - load the chamber with a JHP, and insert a full mag. Then, rack the slide to eject the round in the chamber, like you would do if the round was a dud. Will the PM9 chamber the next round as it should?

Both my PM9s would not - the chambered round would eject, but the next round would jam nose-down into the feed ramp. Same result no matter what ammo I tried (other than PowRBall and FMJ).

I would appreciate it if some of you with "no issues" with your PM9s would run this test (again, safely). Thanks!

If it does jam, the solution suggested to me by Kahr is to smack upwards on the bottom of the mag, to "nudge" the jammed round up the feed ramp. This is not an acceptable solution to me. I had Kahr polish the feed ramp on my previous PM9, and it didn't help.

I have no issues manually clearing a “dud” from the chamber with either of my Glocks, nor with my wife’s LCP. It’s only with the PM9 – and I have had this issue with two of them. Combined with the issues I had with my (early production) P9, and I have all but given up on Kahr.

Would appreciate your results - thanks!

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[dam294]

OK. I just ran your test with my carry JHP's. I ran 4 magazines through without any problem.

[ev239]

Just tried it with mine and as long as I work the slide with gusto it picks up the next round fine. If I don't work it fast enough it will hang up like you describe. I figure if I get into a situation and the first round is a dud I'll be working the slide as fast as I can with all the adrenaline pumping.

[JD]

Out of curiosity, does it fail if you don't top off the mag, IE load the mag to capacity, load the gun, then perform you're failure drill?

[10thmtn]

Out of curiosity, does it fail if you don't top off the mag, IE load the mag to capacity, load the gun, then perform you're failure drill?

Yes, on mine anyways. The problem was always with the top 2-3 rounds in the mag. Once you got past that, I could manually rack with no issues. With such limited capacity to start with, downloading the mag is not really an option.

The pistol works just fine when fired, so I think there may be something to the timing thing. I tried different mags, thinking some might have really strong mag springs pushing upwards, but got the same result. No matter how hard or fast I try to rack the slide, I get a jam 90+% of the time.

Weird, because I have no issues with my Glocks or even my wife's LCP, which is hard for me to get a good grip on.

[rathos]

I am also curious if it does this with all mags? Have you been able to replicate this with 3 or 4 different mags in that gun?

[10thmtn]

I am also curious if it does this with all mags? Have you been able to replicate this with 3 or 4 different mags in that gun?

Yup. Tried that. Still jammed.

[mr surveyor]

I know there would be the possibility of a slight difference in the CW series and the PM series, but you still made me look. With one in the tube and a full 7 round magazine topped off, my CW9 hand cycled every round perfectly.... just remembered... I think you were talking more about jhp's... I had Rem UMC ball... will try again later tonight with jhp's

[jh225]

Just tried it with mine and as long as I work the slide with gusto it picks up the next round fine. If I don't work it fast enough it will hang up like you describe. I figure if I get into a situation and the first round is a dud I'll be working the slide as fast as I can with all the adrenaline pumping.

Exactly why the OP is having problems, guaranteed.

Kahr told the OP the correct answer. If you get a FTF, get a stovpipe, or know there is a spent round in the chamber........TAP (with force, smack the bottom of the mag to ensure it is seated), RACK (forcefully pull the slide back which will eject problem round and let it go. Do NOT ride the slide), FIRE

This is a very common drill taught to LEO's and I would assume is taught in any civilian combat course.

The biggest cause of failure to go into battery after hand ejecting is riding the slide.

Think about it this way. The slide is under tremendous force/psi when it functions by itself in ejecting a spent round. You are trying to hand load a new cartridge with minimal rearward force by hand. Pull the slide back and let it go like you mean it. Bet you it works.

[AKsrule]

The Correct way to load any Magazine Fed SemiAuto weapon
with a slide lock or bolt hold open is....

1. When slide or Bolt locks back ( weapon is now empty- put safety on if it has one ) or you have locked it back , remove empty and/or insert full magazine.

2. Release slide lock or bolt - letting the mechanism chamber a round.

3. Manipulate safety if preparing to fire.

If your weapon functions normally and can fire and chamber rounds
repeatedly - you have no problem......

[10thmtn]

Exactly why the OP is having problems, guaranteed.

Kahr told the OP the correct answer. If you get a FTF, get a stovpipe, or know there is a spent round in the chamber........TAP (with force, smack the bottom of the mag to ensure it is seated), RACK (forcefully pull the slide back which will eject problem round and let it go. Do NOT ride the slide), FIRE

This is a very common drill taught to LEO's and I would assume is taught in any civilian combat course.

The biggest cause of failure to go into battery after hand ejecting is riding the slide.

Think about it this way. The slide is under tremendous force/psi when it functions by itself in ejecting a spent round. You are trying to hand load a new cartridge with minimal rearward force by hand. Pull the slide back and let it go like you mean it. Bet you it works.

I'm an instructor. I can guarantee you I'm not riding the slide. I have no issues with any other pistol that I've ever tried this with.

The issue is not failure to go into battery - it's the next round in the mag jamming into the feed ramp.

Kahr is suggesting a tap-rack-tap-bang, instead of the usual tap-rack-bang.

[10thmtn]

The Correct way to load any Magazine Fed SemiAuto weapon
with a slide lock or bolt hold open is....

1. When slide or Bolt locks back ( weapon is now empty- put safety on if it has one ) or you have locked it back , remove empty and/or insert full magazine.

2. Release slide lock or bolt - letting the mechanism chamber a round.

3. Manipulate safety if preparing to fire.

If your weapon functions normally and can fire and chamber rounds
repeatedly - you have no problem......

Just to again clarify - I'm talking about a dud clearance/failure to fire drill...where you need to eject the round that is in the chamber, and load the next round in the mag.

I'm not talking about how to chamber the first round.

I'm really looking for folks with PM9's to try this drill and report their results. I don't need general speculation.

So far, my PM9 has a 90+% failure rate, another member on another thread had a 10% failure rate, yet another member experienced this (unknown %) and one did not experience the problem.

Even if racking the slide "faster" solves the issue, it would seem the PM9 is finicky. None of my other pistols give me this problem.

I'll await more replies before drawing a final conclusion.

[Armydad]

Are you manually inserting the round or racking it off of the mag? Many pistols operate very well with a loaded chamber, but only if it is loaded from the mag. Chamber the round, drop the mag and load it with one bullet. I don't have near the experience that you do but I have run into some guns that did not like a full mag as the spring tension was too great and caused feed problems. Drop a round or two and it fed fine. This has usually been in high capacity mags.

Good luck.

Armydad

Are you the same person under this name at USCCA?

[10thmtn]

Are you manually inserting the round or racking it off of the mag? Many pistols operate very well with a loaded chamber, but only if it is loaded from the mag. Chamber the round, drop the mag and load it with one bullet. I don't have near the experience that you do but I have run into some guns that did not like a full mag as the spring tension was too great and caused feed problems. Drop a round or two and it fed fine. This has usually been in high capacity mags.

Good luck.

Armydad

Are you the same person under this name at USCCA?

I always load the first round in off the mag, just as you describe.

Yup, it's me! I'm not at USCCA anymore. Migrated over here for now - once new baby comes, I'll likely be off line for a while!

[Hubadub]

Howdy, I did as you instructed with Remington Golden Saber and Speer Gold Dot in five different magazines without a problem. However, when my PM9 wasn`t well broken in it was a little stiff and I had a bit of trouble somewhat like you described. Ever since about the 500 round mark it has been slick as glass. I hope this was of some help.