LCP and Bersa Thunder 380 - Carry AMMO Help

LCP and Bersa Thunder 380 - Carry AMMO Help

This is a discussion on LCP and Bersa Thunder 380 - Carry AMMO Help within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hello, I have the above 2 guns that are carried from time to time by me and my wife. I just bought 3 boxes of ...

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Thread: LCP and Bersa Thunder 380 - Carry AMMO Help

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    Senior Member Array harley2007's Avatar
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    LCP and Bersa Thunder 380 - Carry AMMO Help

    Hello,

    I have the above 2 guns that are carried from time to time by me and my wife. I just bought 3 boxes of Magtech 85grain JHP +P.

    I have read a bunch on here about 380 technically not made in +P and so the Magtech really isn't +P....so my quesiton is, Can I use this ammo (assuming it cycles perfectly) in these 2 guns?

    BOX STATISTICS:

    FPS 1082
    221 ft lb.


    Thanks in advance for your help.
    "I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!" - Dorothy Parker


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    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Can you find out from Magtech what pressure is generated by these rounds? Should be OK as long as the pressure is within SAAMI spec. If it is above spec, I would ask the gun manufacturers if the ammo is safe to use.

    I'm suspicious though, because there is no "+P" in .380 as far as I'm aware.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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    Senior Member Array harley2007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patti View Post
    I saw that and have heard a lot of the Hornady round but I already own the Magtech stuff....thanks though.
    "I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!" - Dorothy Parker

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    Senior Member Array harley2007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Can you find out from Magtech what pressure is generated by these rounds? Should be OK as long as the pressure is within SAAMI spec. If it is above spec, I would ask the gun manufacturers if the ammo is safe to use.

    I'm suspicious though, because there is no "+P" in .380 as far as I'm aware.
    Here is from Magtech's site....no pressure rating???

    Description:
    380 Auto 85 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point
    Use: Guardian Gold Ammunition
    Caliber: 380 Auto
    Casing: Factory Brass

    Symbol: GG380A
    BULLET
    Bullet Style: GGJHP
    Weight (Grains): 85
    Weight (Grams): 5.51
    Diameter (inches): 0.355
    Sectional Density: 0.096
    Ballistic Coefficient: 0.111


    PRIMER
    Type: Small Pistol Primer 1
    Style: Boxer

    BALLISTICS
    FPS M/S
    Velocity (Muzzle) 1082 330
    Velocity (50 Yards/Meters) 999 303
    Velocity (100 Yards/Meters) 936 282

    Ft.Lbs J
    Energy (Muzzle) 221 300
    Energy (50 Yards/Meters) 188 252
    Energy (100 Yards/Meters) 166 219


    Inch Cm
    Mid-Range Trajectory (50 Yards/Meters) 1 3.1
    Mid-Range Trajectory (100 Yards/Meters) 4.3 13.3
    test Barrel Length 3.75 9.5

    Power Factor (Estimated) 91.97
    +P Ammunition YES


    PACKAGING
    Box/Bag Inner Pack Shipping Case
    Quality (Pieces) 20 N/A 1000
    UPC 7 54908 17421 8 N/A 7 54908 17420 1
    Dimensions (Length Inches) 3.2 N/A 14
    Dimensions (Width Inches) 2.7 N/A 8
    Dimensions (Height Inches) 1.5 N/A 7
    Weight (Pounds) 0.4 N/A 22.8
    Cube 0.01 N/A 0.45
    Cases Per Pallet 75
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    Senior Member Array harley2007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Can you find out from Magtech what pressure is generated by these rounds? Should be OK as long as the pressure is within SAAMI spec. If it is above spec, I would ask the gun manufacturers if the ammo is safe to use.

    I'm suspicious though, because there is no "+P" in .380 as far as I'm aware.
    I just called magtech and talked to the tech dept telling them SAAMI does not show a +p 380 rating so how is this 380...he could not answer and said he would find out the pressure rating and call me back...SAAMI states 380 = 21,500 so I would assume if it is more, then it cannot be used.......here is the odd part...the website for Magtech claims the round is made to SAAMI standards....I dont get it????
    "I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!" - Dorothy Parker

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    Senior Member Array harley2007's Avatar
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    Here is the email response from Magetech (I have to say FAST response to my phone call for sure):

    Tony,

    I’m still waiting to find the pressure for the Guardian Gold .380, but what I am hearing is that there is no SAAMI spec for a +P .380, just a max pressure for non +P. I was told that the Guardian Gold is loaded at a pressure above that max pressure for the non +P, and that if your gun is not rated for it, which I believe the LCP isn’t, I would suggest not shooting it in your gun.

    Best Regards,
    "I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!" - Dorothy Parker

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    Member Array sigpack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harley2007 View Post
    All-

    Here is the email response from Magetech (I have to say FAST response to my phone call for sure):

    Tony,

    I’m still waiting to find the pressure for the Guardian Gold .380, but what I am hearing is that there is no SAAMI spec for a +P .380, just a max pressure for non +P. I was told that the Guardian Gold is loaded at a pressure above that max pressure for the non +P, and that if your gun is not rated for it, which I believe the LCP isn’t, I would suggest not shooting it in your gun.

    Best Regards,
    OK, now I'm confused. If the GG is loaded above the SAAMI pressure for non +P and there is no SAAMI spec for +P, what gun will be rated for this ammo? Did Magtech market an ammo that no gun is rated for?

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    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    If so, that's hilarious.

    Also take note that a +P rating doesn't always mean it's higher pressure. A lot of standard pressure loads are marketed as +P because the companies know people will flock to anything magnum, +P, or tactical.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

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    Senior Member Array harley2007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigpack View Post
    OK, now I'm confused. If the GG is loaded above the SAAMI pressure for non +P and there is no SAAMI spec for +P, what gun will be rated for this ammo? Did Magtech market an ammo that no gun is rated for?
    I understand completely what you are asking but dont know the answer other than I guess if a gun manufacturer states the gun is ok with levels ABOVE SAAMI pressures, well then I guess it is ok to use....I wish SAAMI would post a pressure for +P for 380 so there was acceptable normal industry nomenclature.
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    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Most .380s are simple blowback actions, so they would not work well with higher pressure ammo. If the "+P" is just a marketing gimmick and the pressure is within SAAMI spec, it should be ok. If it is above SAAMI spec, I would not use it. I know that Ruger does not recommend any above SAAMI pressure loads in the LCP.

    Curious what their tech folks find out?
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    I carry "Buffalo Bore" +P as my self defense round. Don't fire it on a regular basis but have fired enough of it to make sure it would function in my LCP. I have heard the same thing as far is there is no such round as the 380+P. However Ruger must believe there is such a round as they state in their manual DO NOT USE +P AMMO. I contacted Buffalo Bore via e-mail about using their +P in my LCP and they stated it would be fine. If they are willing to state that their +P ammo is safe in an LCP then they must know something that we don't know. That statement alone comes with a certain liability. So maybe it's like others have said the +P 380's are just a marketing tool. However I do notice a good bit more recoil with the BB.

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    I carry Corbon 90 grain JHPs in my LCP and they used to carry a "+P" designation on the box, but not anymore. I shoot this load sparingly and use mostly Magtech 95 grain FMJs for range practice. The shortage of .380 ammunition these days rather limits your choice of carry loads, and any that you do find is akin to finding gold in your backyard.
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  14. #14
    Senior Member Array harley2007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crzy4guns View Post
    I carry Corbon 90 grain JHPs in my LCP and they used to carry a "+P" designation on the box, but not anymore. I shoot this load sparingly and use mostly Magtech 95 grain FMJs for range practice. The shortage of .380 ammunition these days rather limits your choice of carry loads, and any that you do find is akin to finding gold in your backyard.
    I am going to get either Corbon or maybe some PowrBall for the LCP and only use the Magtech +P in the Bersa....I think that is the safest.
    "I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!" - Dorothy Parker

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    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    If so, that's hilarious.

    Also take note that a +P rating doesn't always mean it's higher pressure. A lot of standard pressure loads are marketed as +P because the companies know people will flock to anything magnum, +P, or tactical.
    I think you hit the nail on the head for this Magtech load. I'd bet advertising hype. Their stated velocity isn't that much above other good SD loads and they are using an 85 gr. bullet where most others use 90-95 gr. bullets.

    Quote Originally Posted by harley2007 View Post
    I understand completely what you are asking but dont know the answer other than I guess if a gun manufacturer states the gun is ok with levels ABOVE SAAMI pressures, well then I guess it is ok to use....I wish SAAMI would post a pressure for +P for 380 so there was acceptable normal industry nomenclature.
    They can't just whip out a +P rating for a specific cartridge. It not only depends on the strength of the firearm but also on the strength of the cartridge casing itself. If the design of the cartridge doesn't allow it to hold higher pressures, then that's what you're stuck with. You can see this in some of the +P brass offered by Starline:
    45 AUTO +P (Large Pistol primer) .892"-.897" O.A.L. (Backordered expected availability: 08-31-2009 )

    The 45 Auto+P is a strengthened version of the 45 Auto with the same external dimensions. A thicker web and heavier sidewall at base strengthens the case in potentially unsupported areas. This case has approximately 2 grains less internal water capacity than the standard 45 Auto.
    While other calibers are the same:
    9MM+P (Small Pistol primer) .748"-.754" O.A.L. (Backordered expected availability: 09-15-2009 )

    9MM+P has no difference from the standard 9mm Luger other than headstamp designation for load segregation. Due to standard case design, it will handle +P pressures with no problems.
    Here is a list of SAAMI pressures for most common firearm calibers.

    Also, another thing to consider is that the LCP leaves a rather large section of the case unsupported by the chamber. Here is a photo of my LCP barrel with a cartridge:



    With that much unsupported case, I'm not putting any of the "hot" stuff in mine. I like my fingers.
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