Springfield Mil-Spec 1911

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Thread: Springfield Mil-Spec 1911

  1. #16
    OD*
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    Nice looking Springer, Tom.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

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  3. #17
    Member Array Faitmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD View Post
    They have the same type barrels today (like I said before, they are supported by the recoil abutment) that they had when the first pistols were assembled on 28 Dec, 1911. (Some of the Para's, Springers and others have used/use ramped barrels, but the majority of manufacturers still use the original design).
    <cut for brevity>
    How you guys remember all this stuff is beyond me. I read a lot but don't seem to retain as much as I used to. I guess it's about really knowing your subject matter.

    Nice pics. Very informational.
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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faitmaker View Post
    How you guys remember all this stuff is beyond me. I read a lot but don't seem to retain as much as I used to. I guess it's about really knowing your subject matter.

    Nice pics. Very informational.
    I bet you have a hobby you can do the same with.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
    ~ Tiger McKee

  5. #19
    Member Array diverdown247's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD View Post
    They have the same type barrels today (like I said before, they are supported by the recoil abutment) that they had when the first pistols were assembled on 28 Dec, 1911. (Some of the Para's, Springers and others have used/use ramped barrels, but the majority of manufacturers still use the original design).



    The throat contour is the only thing changed.


    Original-Throated-Dimpled


    Springfield has never made a Series 70 clone. Unfortunately, "Series 70" has become a generic term. What makes a Series 70, a "Series 70" has nothing to do with the fire control system, if your armor knows the 1911 he will tell you that. It was the collet barrel bushing and "Accurizor" barrel that made the pistols Series 70s. They then became the "Series 80" with the addition of the firing pin safety. The Springers and even the Colt reproduction "Series 70" are more like the pre-1971 Colts.


    Solid and Collet bushing.


    Collet bushing





    Colt Series 80 firing pin safety

    Great info by the way! Always helpful for those new to the 1911 world.

    Those are classified as partially ramped (slightly modded Series 70) barrels. The fully ramped barrels are the ones I had been referring to. No doubt on the support from the recoil abutment, but there's still more movement when the slide is to the rear than the fully ramped barrels.

    The fully ramped barrel actually drops down onto the top of the frame (as I mentioned earlier) to alter the uptake angle of a round stripped from the magazine.

    Something that a new 1911 buyer needs to know in advance is that when you alter just 1 part on a 1911, you change the aspects of several parts which can ultimately create more problems than it solved. Don't be discouraged by reading that because it's a 2 way street...you can solve several problems with 1 change. I changed a barrel link and it resulted in better lock-up, but created a strange ejection angle (started hitting me in the face..and yes my ejection port was lowered and flared), some FTE's, and some FTF's.

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by diverdown247 View Post
    Those are classified as partially ramped (slightly modded Series 70) barrels.
    Classified as "partially ramped" by whom? None of the barrel makers do, as far as I'm aware of, I've been dinkin' with the 1911 platform for 30+ years and that is the first time I've heard the standard 1911 barrel referred to as partially ramped. The slightly modded barrels you refer to (there is no difference between what you are calling a Series 70 barrel and a standard barrel, unless they are Colt's Gold Cup barrels), are known as "throated."
    The fully ramped barrel actually drops down onto the top of the frame (as I mentioned earlier) to alter the uptake angle of a round stripped from the magazine.
    I'm familiar with the ramped barrels and how they work, I have one in a Les Baer Concept IX pistol.
    I changed a barrel link and it resulted in better lock-up, but created a strange ejection angle (started hitting me in the face..and yes my ejection port was lowered and flared), some FTE's, and some FTF's.
    And if you install a barrel link that is too long, you can shear the barrel lugs also, folks need to know what they are doing and how the 1911 really works before they start changing parts.
    Last edited by OD*; August 27th, 2009 at 12:06 PM. Reason: spelling
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

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  7. #21
    Member Array diverdown247's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD View Post
    Classified as "partially ramped" by whom? None of the barrel makers do, as far as I'm aware of, I've been dinkin' with the 1911 platform for 30+ years and that is the first time I've heard the standard 1911 barrel referred to as partially ramped. The slightly modded barrels you refer to (there is no difference between what you are calling a Series 70 barrel and a standard barrel, unless they are Colt's Gold Cup barrels), are known as "throated."
    I'm familiar with the ramped barrels and how they work, I have one in a Les Baer Concept IX pistol.
    And if you install a barrel link that is too long, you can shear the barrel lugs also, folks need to know what they are doing and how the 1911 really works before they start changing parts.
    Boy howdy on knowing what you're doing! That's why mine went to a competent pistol smith for all of the work. We spent 2 weeks troubleshooting why the primer impacts were off-center and finally got it close enough to not matter any longer.


    As for dinking with the original design, there are several different barrel throat designs. Several are just the flat lip that use the frame top as an impact point (acts like a feed ramp) to nose-up the bullet to the throat. Some have partially cut (partially ramped) bottoms to aid the bullet into the throat so it's not such a steep transition. Yet another design is a fully ramped (supported ramp) version that has a ramp that extends down toward the nose of the magazine rather than using the frame as a bullet guide to the throat.

    So, yes there have been folks dinking with the barrel design. Everything from partially ramped to fully ramped, standard barrels, 2 piece barrels, bull barrels, compensated barrels, polished frame tops, all steel construction, composite/alloy construction, polymer construction, etc. There are so many changes that have occurred that it can be a lot for a new person to the 1911 world to absorb. You have so many manufacturers that every one of them has put something different into their own designs. Wilson Combat even has a fitment chart to gauge what might fit certain manufacturers products.

    In my opinion, it's been a beautiful transition from design to the technological advances available now. But, there's just nothing like a bone-stock original Series 70. A 1911 shooter should be familiar with shooting what started it all and what he/she wants to be shooting now.

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by diverdown247 View Post
    Several are just the flat lip that use the frame top as an impact point (acts like a feed ramp) to nose-up the bullet to the throat. Some have partially cut (partially ramped) bottoms to aid the bullet into the throat so it's not such a steep transition.
    You're going to have to show me a picture of a partially ramped 1911 barrel, Colt's never used them and neither has Les Baer, unless you are calling the throated barrels I posted a picture of "partially ramped."
    So, yes there have been folks dinking with the barrel design. Everything from partially ramped to fully ramped, standard barrels, 2 piece barrels, bull barrels, compensated barrels, polished frame tops, all steel construction, composite/alloy construction, polymer construction, etc.
    I'm assuming you have mixed barrels and pistols together in this paragraph, I know of no "composite/alloy construction, polymer construction" 1911 barrels.
    In my opinion, it's been a beautiful transition from design to the technological advances available now. But, there's just nothing like a bone-stock original Series 70. A 1911 shooter should be familiar with shooting what started it all and what he/she wants to be shooting now.
    If you want to shoot the "1911" that started it all, it wouldn't be a Series 70, it would be a M1911 or a Government Model from 1912 to around 1924. The originals are quite different from the much later Series 70s.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

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  9. #23
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    My apologies OD, I should have clarified when I mentioned composite, etc that it was the pistol and not the barrel. To my knowledge, the only material changes to barrels were that some were cold forged and some were not. The others were assembly and design changes.

    It was explained to me years ago that the throated barrel is very slightly different than the partially ramped barrel. I'm not as familiar with the partially ramped as I am with the fully ramped or the throated because I've only owned standards, throated, and fully ramped barrels. That said, what the armor told me back then was that the partially ramped barrel will look just like the throated barrel, with the exception that the partially ramped barrel looks like it has a very small tongue that slopes down...the throated barrel does not.

    To me, there's very little difference between a stock 1 piece barrel (with minimal throating) and a true throated barrel. Just a little modification at the entry point of the barrel to aid in round entry and seating. By and far one of the best performance mods that can be done on a Series 70 if you want to keep as much of the stock features as possible. Were there just 3 versions of the old style throated barrels (throated/dimpled)? I recall seeing one that looked like it had just a rolled lip on the bottom. (think it was an older Springer)

    The fully ramped barrels should be on most of the newer 1911's. I do believe that some can still be made (possibly are) with the old style standard barrel, but I've yet to own a newer one that does.

    My 25 year old Springer Milspec 5 inch is a non-throated standard barrel. My GI Champion 4 inch was a fully ramped/supported bull-barrel...w/o the barrel bushing at the muzzle. I have not looked, but I'm sure the GI Champ was a 2 piece barrel (1 part chamber, 1 part barrel) and the 25 year old was a 1 piece barrel.

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array Grant48's Avatar
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    Springfield's "GI" model is closer to government issue than the "Mil-Spec" model.

    With that said, the Springfield "Mil-Spec" model is a better value than the "GI" (in my opinion), due to the 3-dot sights and lowered and flared ejection port.

    I have a Springfield "GI", and I love it, but often I wish I had gone with the "Mil-Spec" instead. Live and learn.

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by diverdown247 View Post
    The fully ramped barrels should be on most of the newer 1911's. I do believe that some can still be made (possibly are) with the old style standard barrel, but I've yet to own a newer one that does.
    No, most of the "1911s" currently made have the standard barrels, a select few have fully ramped barrels .
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
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    I have to admit it.

    I was a VERY die-hard Glock man until one day I decided that I should give the "Old Man" a shot.

    I bought my first 1911, a Springfield Armory "GI" 1911-A1.

    Why that choice? It is the closest I could find to the original design, and if it was going to prove itself to me, it was going to have to do it with a real "no-frills" approach.

    So?

    I took it home and "played" with it. I...umm...fell in love.

    "Glass rod trigger" finally means something to me.

    I will always love Glocks and their indestructibility, but that 1911 is something else.

    Also, I will never modify it. I believe in adapting oneself to the weapon (versus vice versa) in special cases.

    I wear my "Grip Bites" with pride, thank you very much...
    That which does not kill us leaves us broken and bleeding...

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    Member Array rmeron's Avatar
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    Springfield Mil-Spec

    Quote Originally Posted by rmeron View Post
    Does Springfield do anything to this weapon that wasn't done to the originall John Browning design to let the pistol feed hollow point rounds.
    I have had a few originals over the years and hardball was all I could use.
    I have a gunshow this weekend and maybe I'll find something!
    I bought a Springfield GI model today,I know it's not the Mil-
    spec,but brand new in the cardboard box for $400.00.The guy said he's had it for around 5 years and never shot it,I just couldn't pass it up.
    Will grips for a Colt fit this weapon? I want to put some nicer grips on her.

  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array AKsrule's Avatar
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    For those who are unfamiliar with "ramps"


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  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmeron View Post
    I bought a Springfield GI model today,I know it's not the Mil-
    spec,but brand new in the cardboard box for $400.00.The guy said he's had it for around 5 years and never shot it,I just couldn't pass it up.
    Will grips for a Colt fit this weapon? I want to put some nicer grips on her.
    Colt's stocks, or any made for the full size "1911" will work.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
    ~ Tiger McKee

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKsrule View Post
    For those who are unfamiliar with "ramps"


    Thank you, that explains it better than I have been able to get across.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
    ~ Tiger McKee

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