DA/SA or DAO on-duty & 1911 off-duty?

DA/SA or DAO on-duty & 1911 off-duty?

This is a discussion on DA/SA or DAO on-duty & 1911 off-duty? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This question is specifically directed at those members who carry a firearm for "official business" every day while in the employee of a law enforcement ...

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Thread: DA/SA or DAO on-duty & 1911 off-duty?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    DA/SA or DAO on-duty & 1911 off-duty?

    This question is specifically directed at those members who carry a firearm for "official business" every day while in the employee of a law enforcement or security agency.

    Do any of you carry a DA/SA or DAO on-duty (because agency policy prohibits SA carry on-duty) but carry a SA (1911 style) off-duty? I'm asking specifically to get your take on the difference in the manual-of-arms between your duty weapon and off-duty gun. My agency does not permit me to carry a 1911 on-duty. I have always had the idea of carrying one on my own time rolling around in the back of my head. But I have always been concerned about the muscle-memory required to swipe the safety off when I draw. Obviously the majority of my practice and training is done with my duty weapon. I'm not sure I could put in enough range time with a 1911 to make it an ingrained habit. Any of you guys carry two different systems?
    Thanks,
    Gonzo
    "Skin that smokewagon!".


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    I am in the same position as you, Gonzo, and will not carry an SAO for the same reasons you've identified. Having grabbed for my pistol at my hip (while it sat in a thigh rig) when under stress, even after having trained extensively on the thigh rig, I can attest to the practical meaning of "muscle memory."
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    Senior Member Array kellyII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    I am in the same position as you, Gonzo, and will not carry an SAO for the same reasons you've identified. Having grabbed for my pistol at my hip (while it sat in a thigh rig) when under stress, even after having trained extensively on the thigh rig, I can attest to the practical meaning of "muscle memory."
    I too can atest to this statement. When I moved my dropleg holster to my MOLLE chest rig, I still found myself reaching for my thigh at times. I guess this could be the same for using defferent types of weapons....

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    VIP Member Array pogo2's Avatar
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    Comment...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatGonzo View Post
    I have always had the idea of carrying one (1911) on my own time rolling around in the back of my head. But I have always been concerned about the muscle-memory required to swipe the safety off when I draw. Obviously the majority of my practice and training is done with my duty weapon. I'm not sure I could put in enough range time with a 1911 to make it an ingrained habit.
    You've made a good case for keeping your off duty carry the same trigger system as your duty gun. You don't want to draw a 1911 while off duty and try to save your life with it while the safety is still applied. It could take a second or two to realize the problem, off the safety and try the trigger again. During that period of time you could lose your life.

    Draw, pull trigger and go bang is much more obvious and intuitive than cocked and locked.
    Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the Peoples' Liberty's Teeth." - George Washington

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    I love the slim profile and the grip feel of an 1911. I considered, and tried, a couple of Para LDA models, but I have yet to find an LDA that is completely reliable. Which is too bad since every one I tried had that great "1911 feel" and really nice triggers.
    Gonzo
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  6. #6
    Member Array Huzar's Avatar
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    Yeah... I"m in the same boat.... my duty weapon is XD 45 and off duty I usually carried 1911 but more and more I'm findng that I when I practice with my 1911 on the range I forget to disengage the safety for the first shot or when I do fair amount of shooting with the 1911 I end up riding the non existent safety on my XD and the slide wont lock on the last round...... but on the other hand 1911's are a lot slimmer, easier to conceal...... and I like shooting them a lot more ;)

  7. #7
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I carry a DAO piece of fecal matter on duty.

    Off Duty I carry a P35, and that will not change until I want to change. Granted I do change platforms every year or two so that I can have expirience with many of the various firearms out there.

    I grew up shooting revolvers, so the long double action trigger pull is second nature to me, and I tend to gravitate to it a lot. I also like a single action's trigger pull as well, and they feel vastly different to me. What I can tell you is, I have played around with various grips and holds in hopes of eliminating the "forgetting the safety" issue.

    I have failed to swipe the safety off IRL before. Luckily the situation resolved with no shots fired. Now I find myself holding all autoloading pistols the same, and swiping non-existant thumb safeties off on a Glock.

    Biker

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    I Carry a Sig P226 when I work in Uniform, the rest of the time it's a 1911. However I practice extensively with both.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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    Member Array Obiwan's Avatar
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    I'm in agreement with Gonzo. I carry a H&K P2000 LEM both on and off duty. It simplifies everything. In those occasions when I can't carry the H&K, I carry another DAO. This is after decades of shooting 1911s and having my thumb habitually stroking the safety. I have taken the time and effort to develop the muscle memory for DAO since I have to carry one 10+ hours a day. I don't want to screw it up when my life is at stake.
    When seconds count, help is minutes away!

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    I could carry a 1911 on my own time, and even as back-up at work. (I carried 1911s off and on until 1997, and 24/7, duty and CC, from '97 into 2002.) In actual practice, I choose to carry long-stroke DA pistols for "go to" guns, that I may draw and fire in a hurry, on my own time and at work. I have never missed a 1911's thumb safety, but I have flubbed the first shot or two because I put "too much finger" on the trigger, with a 1911.

    I would have no problem with pulling a 1911 out of a case or "war bag" and using it in a proactive, aggressive mode. ("Offensive" pistol, anyone?) When I qual next month, I just might add my Les Baer TRS back onto my roster of "off-duty/back-up" guns.

    FWIW, I don't mix Glocks and SIGs anymore. I did for a while, until I found that shooting a Glock for a long session could then cause me to flub the first shot or two from a DAK P229. As I was far more accurate with a SIG at longer range, the Glock went away.

    My primary duty pistols are P229s. At the time I bought the first one, I had a choice of G22, Beretta 96G, some obscure LEO-oriented decocker-only 3rd-Generation S&W, and the P229. I had tried the G22 for a couple of years, but then got to handle a P229 with a short factory trigger, found it a MUCH better fit, and switched. Before the G22, I had been carrying 1911s. Before the 1911s, I mostly carried S&W or Ruger sixguns, and still consider myself an old-school sixgunner, the reason I favor long-stroke DA.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array NY27's Avatar
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    G23 on duty. Off-duty is my 27 most of the time. Sometimes it is my 19 or 30. Either way it is the same platform. I also carry my weapon in nearly the same exact position on and off-duty because of muscle memory as others have mentioned.

    I know some old timers that rely on the element of surprise for off-duty carry, carrying in ankle rigs and other ways. But IMO you may not always have the opportunity to take cover before drawing. I want a quick presentation on and off-duty. I also want the weapon to be the same platform.
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  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array Agave's Avatar
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    I carry the same gun on and off duty, but if I had my option, it'd be a full size Glock for duty and a compact or subcompact for off duty. I want to carry the same trigger all the time.
    The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua.

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