Anyone want to take a shot at this.

This is a discussion on Anyone want to take a shot at this. within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by P95Carry A shot from a Smith 500 that misses (even if muzzle blast puts the guy down ) is no good compared ...

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Thread: Anyone want to take a shot at this.

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry
    A shot from a Smith 500 that misses (even if muzzle blast puts the guy down ) is no good compared to two fast useful hits with a 9mm!
    Ahh but after the muzzle blast knocks him down he more likly to stop what he was doing or be so shakey when he gets up second shot will be easy ..

    2 fast hits from a 9mm still aint gonna = one good hit from any 50 cal


    Ohh and i wont carry anything below 9mm

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  3. #17
    Member Array jclif1995's Avatar
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    Barring all that has been said regarding placement and the like, these are my thoughts. My favorites are also noted.

    minimum: 380, 38spl
    acceptable: 9mm
    very good: 40s&w*, 357sig
    premimum: 45acp*, 44spl
    top o da line: 357mag*
    overkill: 44mag

    my opinion includes common defense sized handguns. the hunting rounds as well as the mouse rounds were not included because, while they will work, the market has provided better choices in acceptable concealable packages.
    john

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Imo, anything less than a cruise missile leaves me undergunned. So, I plan on shooting multiple times rather than relying on a 1 shot idea.

  5. #19
    Member Array yoshi's Avatar
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    What you could do, is take all the ballistic statistics off the web, plug them into Microsoft Access (or similar database) and sort by criteria (force of impact, muzzle velocity, etc...)
    Live Free or Die

  6. #20
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    As I read it, 1man's "one shot" request was regarding one post per, to prevent back and forth "mine's better" arguments.

    IMHO, provided you are above a minimum power floor (say, 9mm), the cartridge really matters much, much less than placement.

    Matt

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Honestly, the most potent "caliber" is your mindset. If you have the will and drive to put down a violent assault, odds are you will do it. Debating single-shot stops is like debating single-punch take-downs; what works on one may not work on another, and depends on the target's mindset to a large extent, as well.

    Personally, I shoot .32ACP and 9mm, some .38/357(when I have one). If I had the $$ to branch out in arms, parts & ammo, I might branch out some....but probably not. Just me,though.....

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    From 22 rimfire on up. There have been more people killed with a .22 LR than any other caliber. Use what you want and hit what you need to hit.

    Reminds me of the OH State Trooper that shot someone four times in the chest with 158gr .357 Mag rounds from a 4" wheelgun and the SINGLE .22LR BULLET ENTERED HIS CHEST FROM UNDER HIS ARM AND HE DIED 20 SECONDS LATER. His killer took the 4 shots in the CHEST and didn't skip a beat.

    Is the .22 LR better than the .357 Magnum? It is if you place your shot(s) in the right spot.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  9. #23
    Member Array ninpo's Avatar
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    Shot Placement over Shot caliber...
    "Stay Alert, Stay Alive"

  10. #24
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    1man,

    Everything I have read indicates that shot placement, not caliber, is everything in "effectiveness" [i.e., stopping power]. Unless immediately incapacitated, a "mortally wounded" man with the will to survive can continue to fight for several seconds before expiring. Nonetheless, I think 9mm, .38 SPL, .357 MAG, .40 S&W, 10mm and .45ACP in that order and with quality ammunition should be first choice by anyone serious about self-defense carry.

    However, if you have something less or cannot afford anything else the next best thing is to practice-practice-practice and become proficient with whatever you have. Lesser cartridges that I would consider in a pinch, least to most effective, would be .22 LR, .32ACP, .380ACP. If JHP was available in 9mm MAKAROV and 7.62X25 I'd throw those in, but I've only seen FMJ loads for those cartridges and I would never advise using FMJ for a defensive cartridge.

    I'm reminded of a couple of old sayings here:

    "The first rule of gunfighting: Have a gun!"
    "Beware the man with one gun. He probably knows how to use it!"

    Stay Safe!

    Manny

  11. #25
    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Well since I can't conceal my AR-15 or the 870 that well I guess I would have to say nothing less than .38+p. But like most people on here harp, it all about shot placement.
    Why Ike, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Doc, you don't have a duster?!?!?

  13. #27
    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Well, I don't want to walk into the local Stop and Rob looking like Neo from the Matrix!!!!!
    But then again maybe that wouldn't be so bad. Now if I could only make the BG's bullets stop in mid-air!
    Why Ike, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!

  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freakshow10mm
    From 22 rimfire on up. There have been more people killed with a .22 LR than any other caliber. Use what you want and hit what you need to hit.

    Reminds me of the OH State Trooper that shot someone four times in the chest with 158gr .357 Mag rounds from a 4" wheelgun and the SINGLE .22LR BULLET ENTERED HIS CHEST FROM UNDER HIS ARM AND HE DIED 20 SECONDS LATER. His killer took the 4 shots in the CHEST and didn't skip a beat.

    Is the .22 LR better than the .357 Magnum? It is if you place your shot(s) in the right spot.
    Yeah, but no disrespect, but didn't the trooper do the same. Four hits in COM? To me this seems to be one of those freak things that happen from time. Sometimes you can't prevent your fate......

    I know a .22 is better in the hand than a .45 in the house but I wouldn't personally go armed with that.
    Why Ike, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    All four were in the chest. Fat guy vs well-muscled ex-Marine (trooper).

    One could argue the penetration issue, but in this instance it seems that the "freak" thing was the exact route for that 22 bullet to take to kill. The .357s didn't take that exact route and thus didn't incapacitate the threat. You can hit someone in the chest all you want, but until the bullets actually go somewhere AND do damage to vitals, all you are doing is shooting a good group, IMO.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    From firearmstactical.com, as posted on GT underline and stuff is me:

    In November 1992, South Carolina Highway Patrolman Mark Coates shot an attacker four times in the torso with his 4 inch Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum revolver. His attacker, an obese adult male who weighed almost 300 pounds, absorbed the hits and shortly thereafter returned fire with one shot from a single-action North American Arms .22 caliber mini-revolver. Coates was fatally wounded when the tiny bullet perforated his left upper arm and penetrated his chest through the armhole of his vest where the bullet cut a major artery. Coates, who was standing next to the passenger-side front fender of the assailant's car when he was hit by the fatal bullet, was very quickly incapacitated.

    After Coates was hit, he immediately ran several feet, scrambling around the front of the assailant's car while simultaneously radioing dispatch that he'd been shot. As he neared the driver's-side front fender he suddenly collapsed onto the pavement.

    Trooper Coates fired four 145 grain Winchester Silvertip .357 Magnum bullets directly into his assailant's heavy abdomen, achieving solid hits with each. These particular bullets penetrate deeper than 125 grain JHPs, however none ruptured any vital cardiovascular structures. During the initial ground struggle, Coates was shot twice, but his vest protected him. After fighting off his attacker, Coates quickly climbed to his feet and emptied his revolver. At that particular moment the assailant was still lying on the ground. The combination of the assailant's obesity and the unusual angle at which the bullets entered his body worked to the disadvantage of Trooper Coates.

    The Coates shooting exemplifies the fable of energy transfer, especially when encountering a determined attacker. The .357 Magnum cartridge is regarded by many as the ultimate manstopper; a true one-shot stop wonder. The Winchester 145 grain .357 Magnum cartridge is given a one-shot stopping power rating of 86 percent by Marshall and Sanow. According to this rating system, a single hit ANYWHERE in the torso is supposed to be highly effective in stopping an attacker, regardless of whether or not the bullet destroys vital tissue. But on this night, it failed FOUR TIMES! The assailant easily absorbed four bullets in his body, each delivering over 450 foot pounds of kinetic energy. This is equivalent to being hit four times by a baseball going approximately 210 miles per hour.


    None of Coates' powerful .357 Magnum bullets were effective, but the bad guy's weak .22 caliber bullet was. The .357 Magnum bullets dumped all their energy into the attacker, whereas the single .22 caliber bullet disrupted vital tissue. The assailant survived the shooting, was convicted of murdering Coates and was sentenced to life in prison. END QUOTE

    Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. The SOB was lucky to have fired a fatal shot. No skill there.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

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