Mousegun Rant

Mousegun Rant

This is a discussion on Mousegun Rant within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Instead of cluttering up someone else's thread, and derailing it from the original topic: While I understand the conundrum of no gun, or a mousegun ...

Page 1 of 20 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 300

Thread: Mousegun Rant

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State of Discombobulation
    Posts
    5,253

    Mousegun Rant

    Instead of cluttering up someone else's thread, and derailing it from the original topic:

    While I understand the conundrum of no gun, or a mousegun only, that is a situation I have yet to face, as I carry something larger than a "Get off me gun".

    Speaking of persuding someone to get off of you, wouldn't it behoove one to entice someone to do so by using a larger caliber than the .380? Handguns are marginal at best, why would you willingly carry or use an underpowered weapon in the first place?

    I carry two BUGS. One is a 38 SPL. The other is a .357 Magnum, so loaded. I have, in the past, carried a small 9mm as a BUG. I just have a hard time grasping the idea that the LCP, as cute as it looks, is the only thing somebody can conceal. It strikes me as carrying a gun as a talisman, and not a serious endeavor.

    To each their own, but I know where my sentiments lie.

    Biker


  2. #2
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,936
    Agreed.

    Most of the police agencys around here require no less than a .38 Special as a backup gun.

    My backup is a 9mm and thats as small as I care to go. My primary is a .45.

    My thought is if you need a backup you are in a world of hurt and you dont need a pipsqueak round with a proven history of failure to stop. If I have to use a backup I want whatever is happening to stop NOW, not 20 minutes or 2 days later.

    Fact of the matter is...
    Mouse guns are made to carry, not to shoot.

    If you really thought you were going to wake up that day and shoot someone, no one in their right mind would carry one.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  3. #3
    VIP Member
    Array RoadRunner71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    6,385
    Let me preface my comments by saying that I do not have anywhere near as much experience with guns as some on this forum.

    That being said, I have shot and observed many of these mouse guns. These are my observations.

    1. Even in .380 they are not "fun" to shoot. Some down right hurt!

    2. Accuracy is minimal. I know there are some who can shoot the wings off a gnat at 100 yards with one, but I think those are exceptions.

    3. Unless you have exceedingly small hands, there is a large fumble-factor involved with these small guns. I suppose practice can take care of this problem, but please refer to Item #1.

    4. Ammo capacity is minimal. Five to seven rounds is borderline in my opinion. Of course, there are always reloads, refer to Item #3.

    My conclusion is that, while useful as a BUG, I will not carry one as a Primary CC unless there is NOTHING else available to me. This is not meant as a criticism to anybody that does carry one as Primary. I can only speak for myself.
    "Mind own business"
    "Always cut cards"

  4. #4
    Member Array gglass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    405
    Where to start?

    As to a mousegun's accuracy... You may want to message Todd Greene over at pistol-training.com . Todd does a demonstration for his students that shows how a LCP can consistently hit a steel plate at 75 yards. This is not indicative of how everyone could shoot an LCP, but it does show that it is the shooter and not the gun.

    As to a .380's effectiveness as a manstopper... Without starting a caliber war, I will just point to the FBI statistics on Officer's deaths by caliber. The latest stats were compiled from 1995 to 2004. While the results are not a fair indicator of one caliber's effectiveness over another, because it highly skews the results by caliber popularity, it still shows real world stopping power. Please note that the .380 ACP has done its fair share of man-stopping.

    Law Enforcement Officers Feloniously Killed with Firearms: Table 34
    "Let me guess... This isn't about the alcohol or tobacco."

  5. #5
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,936
    Please note that the .380 ACP has done its fair share of man-stopping.
    and it will continue to.

    but...

    if a some crack head that is mad at the whole world and is hurting so badly that his only priority is to make it stop and you happen to have the means to make it stop,and he has a big ugly bowie knife, would you rather have a mouse gun or a serious caliber?

    The chances are great that if any one among us HAS to shoot someone that they will be drunk, on drugs, irate, don't care, or maybe all of the above. At the very least, they wont be in their right mind.

    If I knew I was going to engage someone like that, I'd carry a riot shotgun stoked up with some buck and slugs and a long bayonet attached to it. Since we cant carry a long arm with us most of the time, a handgun is the next best thing. I realize that no handgun will guarantee an instant stop, but why handicap oneself with a little caliber when there are better ones that do the job?
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,954
    I agree. I just don't feel confident in the stopping power of small guns. For me anything less than a .357 is useless for anything but a BUG.
    My preferred carry is my S&W 686+ or my S&W Model 29. If either one of them doesn't get the job done, there is a problem that anything else wouldn't fix. My personal opinion is if you carry, carry something you are willing to stake your life on, not the gun you hope will do the job.
    Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.

  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array ripley16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Quantico/ F'burg, VA
    Posts
    1,403
    Handguns are marginal at best, why would you willingly carry or use an underpowered weapon in the first place?
    I reject your premise. Personal experience as well as historic evidence points me to another conclusion and compells me to respect all shapes and sizes of handguns. Marginal is not the word I use when considering what potential any handgun has. My perspective is a little different than yours having lost 5 friends to handgun rounds and one to a shotgun blast (he bled to death). Even a single .22lr took one.

    People carry small handguns because they conceal better than larger ones, it's that simple. They are also just as lethal.

    Having faced firearms on several occations, I can guarantee you I wasn't in the least concerned about the power, size or caliber of the round. My only concern was not stopping one...period. I don't think I'm much different than any other normal person.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array Landric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Kansas City Metro
    Posts
    807
    I have to agree here too. I don't carry a handgun because it makes me feel better, I carry one (generally more than one actually), because I might have to use it. While I have no doubt that a LCP or similar mouse gun is easy to carry and conceal, such weapons are just about the last weapons I would want if actually involved in a gun fight.

    My BUG is an Airweight .38 Special. It is as light as I want to go, and I never carry just a .38 Special, as I'm not comfortable with just a .38. Sometimes I carry two revolvers instead of a revolver and an auto, but when I do, my primary revolver is a .357 Magnum loaded with magnum ammunition. I might one day consider a .380 for BUG duty, if the .380 ACP could through a 158 grain + bullet at 900+ fps.
    -Landric

    "The Engine could still smile...it seemed to scare them" -Felix

  9. #9
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,936
    People carry small handguns because they conceal better than larger ones, it's that simple.
    Thats the problem. They are carrying them because it's easy, not because its what they would wanna use if they really expected a fight.


    They are also just as lethal.
    Perhaps. Perhaps not.

    If you were to get shot in the arm and you had your choice of calibers to get shot with, would you rather get shot with a .22 or a .44?
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    1,997
    Since everyone else "agrees," I'll "concur" just to be different!



    That's the very reason I've decided to NOT get an LCP. I'm not a LEO and, therefore, won't be needing or carrying a backup gun. I love the idea of the extreme concealability and whatnot, but geez, it's a .380! I just can't get past that.

    For my purposes, I want something that's light that I can toss in a pocket (in a pocket holster with trigger protection, of course) when I'm out mowing the yard or when I step outside at night. Let me tell you, I cringe at the thought of ever really needing a gun in the first place, but if I ever do, rest assured that I'll want it to be something superior to a .380.

    That's why I'm looking at the Taurus PT745 single-stack .45.
    "I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."

    -miklcolt45

  11. #11
    Member Array GlockGal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    102
    Handguns kill. Period. However, I wouldn't trust my life to anything less than a 9mm. I carry the 9mm because it is the largest caliber that I can shoot with one hand and still be accurate. As for concealability, I am a FIRM believer in you dress around the gun. I am 5'4 and weigh 112 lbs. and obviously, from my avatar, I'm female. If I can conceal a Glock 19 then so can anyone else. It is very difficult for me to comprehend some of the men that state they cannot conceal a Glock or a double stack handgun because they are "Thin" or "Really skinny". My husband tried to convince me that I needed a little North American Arms .22 revolver as a bug. I told him I wouldn't waste my money and if I felt the need for a bug, it would be another 9mm and most likely a Glock. Just my .02

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    1,997
    Quote Originally Posted by gglass View Post
    As to a .380's effectiveness as a manstopper... Without starting a caliber war, I will just point to the FBI statistics on Officer's deaths by caliber. The latest stats were compiled from 1995 to 2004. While the results are not a fair indicator of one caliber's effectiveness over another, because it highly skews the results by caliber popularity, it still shows real world stopping power. Please note that the .380 ACP has done its fair share of man-stopping.
    Sure, and I can drop a full-grown grizzly bear with a .22 if you give me a few hours and a couple thousand rounds of ammo.

    Lead poisoning is no laughing matter.
    "I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."

    -miklcolt45

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    arizona
    Posts
    3,749
    I lean towards Biker's opinion on this, however, my wife doesn't. First I got her an XDsc9, but she complained that it's too big. So, I took her to the gun show and what does she pick? LCP. I tried to talk her into a PF9 or Taurus Slim or Kahr or something at least 9mm, but no avail. "There all to big". She didn't want a small revolver, either. So, I pack a 1911 and she packs the LCP. Talk about extremes. If a small lady like Lima can pack a .45, then no one has an excuse not to be able to carry a decent gun in a decent caliber.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  14. #14
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State of Discombobulation
    Posts
    5,253
    Quote Originally Posted by ripley16 View Post
    I reject your premise. Personal experience as well as historic evidence points me to another conclusion and compells me to respect all shapes and sizes of handguns. Marginal is not the word I use when considering what potential any handgun has. My perspective is a little different than yours having lost 5 friends to handgun rounds and one to a shotgun blast (he bled to death). Even a single .22lr took one.

    People carry small handguns because they conceal better than larger ones, it's that simple. They are also just as lethal.

    Having faced firearms on several occations, I can guarantee you I wasn't in the least concerned about the power, size or caliber of the round. My only concern was not stopping one...period. I don't think I'm much different than any other normal person.
    Lots of people reject the truth, but that doesn't make it any less true.

    Handguns are marginal when compared to a shotgun or a defensive caliber rifle. As far as your concern when facing a firearm, that was not the equation. I too do not wish to be a bullet sponge, and I don't think any of us here would.

    The equation was, and remains, what will stop your attacker in a sufficiently expeditious manner as to cease hostilities without inflicting harm upon you? I believe that it is not the "mousegun" although it may do the job, it very well may not. If I need to use a gun to stop an aggressor, I need said aggressor to stop RIGHT NOW! Not twenty minutes from now.

    I will never willingly take a handgun to a fight. I will take a longarm and lots of friends with longarms. If I knew I was going to get into a gunfight I would manage to not go there. I carry a handgun(s) because, while I may get into a gunfight, I don't believe it will be today. The handgun(s) are just in case I'm wrong about that belief.

    Biker

  15. #15
    VIP Member
    Array ppkheat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    4,139
    Good topic and discussion, let me throw in my two cents.

    First of all let me state I carry a LCP in my pocket everyday. Yes it is a mousegun, limited caliber/capacity, etc etc etc. I know there are MANY guns that are light years better.......I own some of them. No argument from me about the inadequacies of a mousegun.

    Here is why I carry mine. I'm a farmer/cattleman and a gun hung on my body....IWB, OWB, SOB, shoulder rig, ankle or whereever is in my way while I'm working. I'm subject to have to crawl under, over, through a piece of equipment while working on it or whatever. Sometimes my watch is even in the way and I have to take it off ! I've read where mechanics often have the same gripe as I do about CCW.

    For example if I'm crawling around under something on a concrete floor with a 642 in a pocket holster it is really a distraction, uncomfortable, and maybe even damage the finish on the gun.

    I'm often on my own property and never even see anyone, I'm no where near the "bad parts of town". I feel my personal threat level is very low, but of course anything can happen while on the farm. Actually I have a thread in "armed citizen" about how things can suddenly go bad in the country.

    So my position is I know a bigger/beefer gun is better but will get in my way, I feel my work environment is pretty safe but I know that has its limitations too, all of this is something I have to deal with.

    Whenever I leave here and go on the road somewhere I am armed in a much more appropriate manner.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

Page 1 of 20 1234511 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Mousegun issue
    By nedrgr21 in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: February 8th, 2010, 11:59 AM
  2. Mousegun poll
    By wormtown in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 85
    Last Post: February 1st, 2010, 07:31 PM
  3. Holster Decision for Mousegun
    By kelcarry in forum Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: December 17th, 2009, 09:01 PM
  4. Mousegun too big? New Ruger SSCP .180!!!
    By cj in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: December 15th, 2009, 08:01 PM
  5. Mousegun opinions
    By ICTsnub in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 65
    Last Post: April 24th, 2009, 07:53 PM

Search tags for this page

astra .380 buffalo bore
,
bellyband for mouse gun
,
buffalo bore ammunition #206
,
buffalo bore or corbon hot .25acp
,
how to shoot a mousegun
,
mouse gun 100 yard
,
mousegun accuracy
,
mousegun rant
,
mousegun rant.
,
opinions bond arms
,

sccy cpx-2 laser

,
would you sell a bond arms derringer for a mouse gun
Click on a term to search for related topics.