Accidental Discharge: What I can learn from this.

This is a discussion on Accidental Discharge: What I can learn from this. within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by mojust I think the bullet fragmented when it left the drain pipe. My thoughts, as well. Either that or depending on the ...

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Thread: Accidental Discharge: What I can learn from this.

  1. #61
    Member Array ccwguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojust View Post
    I think the bullet fragmented when it left the drain pipe.
    My thoughts, as well. Either that or depending on the type of material used for the drainpipe(ceramic, or a brittle metal) maybe it hit the second wall of the pipe, punched out some material causing a hole but then remained in the pipe.

    Glad you are okay.

    Muscle memory can be good and bad.

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  3. #62
    Member Array CharlieP's Avatar
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    Never say never ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    ... I went to the GCO convention in Atlanta a few months ago, and they were a few candidates for the Georgia governors race there. One of the Republican candidates admitted to having an ND, and he made the comment that guns are "like horses, if you spend enough time around them, you will have an AD" (he was comparing NDs to getting kicked by a horse). I thought that his comment was silly and pretty dangerous to our cause.

    I strongly disagree with the notion that NDs are inevitable. This type of thinking inclines people to oppose defensive carry in certain situations, because lawmakers may consider that the risk of NDs outweighs the benefit of CC in schools or parks or wherever.

    NDs are caused by someone making a very specific mistake, and violating fundamental rules of gun safety.
    I don't think the comment was either silly or dangerous. Under the limitations you seem to be using ... AD as a result of assuming a gun is not loaded ... then yes, it is avoidable. But there are a LOT of other ways for an AD to happen - especially for hunters. If you accept the candidate's premise, then you can start thinking about some of those other ways it can happen - e.g., a fall with a SA shotgun after taking a shot. The attitude that "it can't happen to me" IS dangerous.

    And if we have to limit our discussions to statements which cannot be twisted by gun-control spinners - then we can't say anything. When they warn about the danger posed to children by allowing licensed carry in public places, they never provide stats to prove their point - because they can't. Its all spin.

    And a thanks to the OP.

  4. #63
    Ape
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieP View Post
    I don't think the comment was either silly or dangerous. Under the limitations you seem to be using ... AD as a result of assuming a gun is not loaded ... then yes, it is avoidable. But there are a LOT of other ways for an AD to happen - especially for hunters. If you accept the candidate's premise, then you can start thinking about some of those other ways it can happen - e.g., a fall with a SA shotgun after taking a shot. The attitude that "it can't happen to me" IS dangerous.

    And if we have to limit our discussions to statements which cannot be twisted by gun-control spinners - then we can't say anything. When they warn about the danger posed to children by allowing licensed carry in public places, they never provide stats to prove their point - because they can't. Its all spin.

    And a thanks to the OP.
    I disagree on a different level. You should absolutely take the stance that a "Negligent Discharge" will NEVER happen to you! But only in the sense that you maintain the highest of respect for guns and their ability to do damage in the wrong hands or mindset.
    If you take the stance of "It happens and may happen to most gun owners at some point", then IMO you've helped the anti gun nuts in their fight to make all guns dangerous and evil.

    I've heard some people make the statement of "I pray to God I never have a ND!" Which bothers me on a certain level as well. You shouldn't put your safety concerns in anyone's hands other than your own. I've crossed 2 different people off of my list of people I will go shooting with or even allow to be in my presence with a gun in my lifetime. If someone ever shows me the ability to not treat a gun with the utmost repect at all times, I have no need for them to be around me and guns.

    No offense to the OP, but as someone else stated earlier, if you were a friend of mine I would honestly tell you that our time together with guns present would be over. I feel the same way about drinking and driving. If you were very young I might cut you some slack when you got quite a bit older and showed a clean record for all that time. But someone of the age to know better and not be clouded by youthfull carrelesness scares me.

    JM .02

  5. #64
    Member Array Stoble's Avatar
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    I am glad this went so well under the circumstances. Thankfully you and yours are OK. I have a friend that took his Remington 22 rifle inside and pumped it over the bed where the bullets fell. He pumped until they stopped coming out and so he felt he was safe. Held it towards the ceiling and pulled the trigger. You know what happened then. Scared him plus the wife was two small rooms away.

  6. #65
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    If you have not learned anything from this thread is NEVER POINT YOUR GUN
    AT ANYTHING YOU DON'T WONT TO DESTROYR !!! ; )
    A Native Floridian = RARE


    IT'S OUR RIGHTS>THEY WANT TO WRONG
    H/D

  7. #66
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape View Post
    I disagree on a different level. You should absolutely take the stance that a "Negligent Discharge" will NEVER happen to you! But only in the sense that you maintain the highest of respect for guns and their ability to do damage in the wrong hands or mindset.
    If you take the stance of "It happens and may happen to most gun owners at some point", then IMO you've helped the anti gun nuts in their fight to make all guns dangerous and evil.

    I've heard some people make the statement of "I pray to God I never have a ND!" Which bothers me on a certain level as well. You shouldn't put your safety concerns in anyone's hands other than your own. I've crossed 2 different people off of my list of people I will go shooting with or even allow to be in my presence with a gun in my lifetime. If someone ever shows me the ability to not treat a gun with the utmost repect at all times, I have no need for them to be around me and guns.

    No offense to the OP, but as someone else stated earlier, if you were a friend of mine I would honestly tell you that our time together with guns present would be over. I feel the same way about drinking and driving. If you were very young I might cut you some slack when you got quite a bit older and showed a clean record for all that time. But someone of the age to know better and not be clouded by youthfull carrelesness scares me.

    JM .02
    Thank you, it needs to be said. KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER. Sorry, but we are the ones that need to be better than all, if we are going to change minds, and thoughts. This really should never happen. Be safe guys and gals.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  8. #67
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Best way to avoid it is (at least what I do )

    1) All guns are loaded.

    2) Muzzle control.
    If I dry fire, I make sure where the muzzle is pointing and that it's at something that would stop the bullet (if there was one) and would not harm anyone or anything. Usually the floor.

    3) If dry firing, recheck the chamber is empty before actually pulling the trigger.

  9. #68
    Member Array Chroode's Avatar
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    Here's another tip.

    In the military, some police organizations, and outside some gun shops, "Clearing Barrels" (filled with sand or other material that will stop a bullet) are used to load and unload weapons.

    LAW ENFORCEMENT FIREARMS SAFETY

    The Box O' Truth #7 - The Sands O' Truth - Page 1

    If you cannot make one of those (maybe a big paint bucket filled with sand?) and keep it in a closet or basement, anytime you load or unload your weapon do so pointing it at a bed matress. Even if the matress doesn't stop the round it could slow it down enough to get caught in a floor/wall. Also consider the direction you pointing at the matress should the round continue on past the floor or wall.

    The Box O' Truth #1 - The Original Box O' Truth - Page 1

    The Box O' Truth #12 - Insulated Walls - Page 1

    The Box O' Truth #14 - Rifles, Shotguns, and Walls - Page 1

    Remember, mechanical devices fail. You could do everything right, and the weapon could still discharge.

  10. #69
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chroode View Post
    If you cannot make one of those (maybe a big paint bucket filled with sand?) and keep it in a closet or basement, anytime you load or unload your weapon do so pointing it at a bed matress. Even if the matress doesn't stop the round it could slow it down enough to get caught in a floor/wall. Also consider the direction you pointing at the matress should the round continue on past the floor or wall.
    And make sure there's no one in the bed!

    Personally, having shot at mattresses in a dump (with various calibers), I have very little faith in a mattress slowing down a bullet to any significant degree, certainly not enough to keep it from penetrating a typical wall. A hardwood floor ... maybe.

    I have an 18" square, 8" deep sand "target" that I keep for dry-firing and other practice.

    YMMV.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  11. #70
    Senior Member Array Rob P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape View Post
    I disagree on a different level. You should absolutely take the stance that a "Negligent Discharge" will NEVER happen to you! But only in the sense that you maintain the highest of respect for guns and their ability to do damage in the wrong hands or mindset.
    If you take the stance of "It happens and may happen to most gun owners at some point", then IMO you've helped the anti gun nuts in their fight to make all guns dangerous and evil.

    I've heard some people make the statement of "I pray to God I never have a ND!" Which bothers me on a certain level as well. You shouldn't put your safety concerns in anyone's hands other than your own. I've crossed 2 different people off of my list of people I will go shooting with or even allow to be in my presence with a gun in my lifetime. If someone ever shows me the ability to not treat a gun with the utmost repect at all times, I have no need for them to be around me and guns.

    No offense to the OP, but as someone else stated earlier, if you were a friend of mine I would honestly tell you that our time together with guns present would be over. I feel the same way about drinking and driving. If you were very young I might cut you some slack when you got quite a bit older and showed a clean record for all that time. But someone of the age to know better and not be clouded by youthfull carrelesness scares me.

    JM .02
    I read all of the same "type" of posts as this one and I am sorry that you who posted these thoughts believe that you are helping anyone with them.

    The debate between AD and ND is POINTLESS. Why? Because it happens after the deed is done. Expounding on the philosophy will not turn back time or unbreak that which got broken.

    And this line:
    No offense to the OP, but as someone else stated earlier, if you were a friend of mine I would honestly tell you that our time together with guns present would be over.
    ARE YOU SERIOUS? The guy comes here and fesses up that he made a mistake and you would eviscerate him for it to the point of ending a friendship (if there was one)? Please tell me you aren't a firearms instructor or certified ANYTHING instructor.

    People are humans. There is no human ANYWHERE who has not made a mistake of some type or who will not continue to make mistakes. The failure of some people to realize that "people made mistakes" is a mistake on their part. Anyone who takes on the role of being an "instructor" either formally or through giving informal advice needs and must understand that point or their advice is worth less than nothing.

    I had an unintended discharge event nearly 20 years ago in which I shot my fireplace through the tempered glass screen. It taught me a lot. I have never made that mistake again. There are other mistakes that I have also not made as a result of that unintended discharge. Life is a series of lessons and I have learned from mine. I am sure the OP has done the same.

    For those who expound in this thread who have not had such an event in their lives, you are attempting to be the gun world equivalent of a "sex expert" while still being a virgin. IOW, you have no knowledge or experience on the subject and your words are as meaningless as the hypothetical virgin's on the applicable subject.

  12. #71
    Member Array Phoebe's Avatar
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    Being very new to guns, I'm very interested in learning more about how NDs can happen and how to prevent them.

    Everyone in life has made stupid mistakes along the way. An unthinking moment in life wiped out my hard drive some years ago. Another stupid moment led to my dog being hit by a car. And those are just two moments of stupid that I can recall right off the top of my head.

    The problem is that a moment of stupid with a firearm, can have deadly consequences. It's an area of life where you need to have multiple levels of safe guards in place.

    Most people don't want to talk about their NDs because they are ashamed or embarrassed or feeling ten tons of stupid. So, there's not much chance for the rest of us to learn.

    I've even seen a post that was clearly an AD (gun malfunction), but the poster was still too ashamed and asked someone else to post it anonymously for him.

    A cop friend has had an ND. He does seem to think if you are around guns enough, sooner or later, everyone gets their moment of stupid.

    Anyway, hate seeing the OP get beaten up. I'd rather talk about problems and how they can be prevented than to ensure no one ever posts about an ND again.

  13. #72
    pax
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    Being very new to guns, I'm very interested in learning more about how NDs can happen and how to prevent them.
    Phoebe ~

    How Unintentional Discharges Happen - TheHighRoad.US

    It's a link to a thread on another forum a couple of years ago. I'd dug through several years' worth of these types of reports on different gun boards and then summarized what I found. Sometime I'm going to turn the list into a web page on the Cornered Cat site ... in my spare time, you know. ;)

    pax
    Kathy Jackson
    My website: Cornered Cat

  14. #73
    Member Array Phoebe's Avatar
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    Wow, Pax! Thanks! The pattern becomes very obvious when looking at all of those. And it does give me a better idea of how failures to the 4 rules happen.

  15. #74
    Senior Member Array adaman04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Learn to press check the gun, and do it every time you pick it up.
    Yep. This because my college roommate fired a 124 gr +P round of Gold Dot through the door frame of my bedroom, through the closet door, through a can of shaving cream, bounced off the wall and landed in my duffel bag in my bedroom. I still have the bullet. The HP filled with wood from the door frame and never expanded. He is now a police officer BTW.

  16. #75
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape View Post
    IMO there's no such thing as an "AD".... Only ND's. That being said I'm sure you realize how infinetly lucky you were not to have hurt or killed anyone. And that I presume will stick with you for life for future safe handeling of firearms.
    Safety 101....NEVER assume a gun is unloaded.
    In these cases someone always make that comment.
    How do you defind negligent and accidental.

    If you are out in the rain and come into the house and slip on a slick floor is that an accident or is it negligent? After all you could have removed your shoes so it is negligent, isn't it?

    If you are going to make a shot, and your foot catches on a rock is that AD or ND? After all you could have made sure of your footing in the absolute.

    Unless there is a faulty gun all discharges are either intended or unintended. So all unintended are negligent. But what does it profit to make that point?

    I would bet, if I were a betting man, that anyone who shoots much for 20 years or so will have an unintended discharge.
    I am willing to use the term AD, and let it go at that.
    I think everyone who has an unintended discharge is aware of their errors, and makes an attempt to correct.
    The most important point is to always have the gun pointed in a safe direction.

    I suppose my main reason for this post is that I always perceive the "No such thing as AD" folks seem to take a holier than thou attitude. I suspect in time they may have to suffer through the same comments from those who know that they had an unintended discarge.

    Regards,
    Jerry

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