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Had a scary encounter.

4K views 29 replies 26 participants last post by  ccw9mm 
#1 ·
So, the other day my boyfriend and I were driving on the freeway, when someone with some obvious road rage issues, came roaring up behind us, practically riding our bumper (and we were a little over the speed limit already).
So my boyfriend, being a safe driver, slowed down a bit to deterr the guy from continuing these dangerous actions.
He then attempts several times to drive us off the road! And he dangerously follows us on our exit, almost causing more accidents, by attempting to drive us off the ramp, and trying to collide cars. He then goes straight, while we proceed to go right, in which he then drives around an island in the road and cuts us off (almost t-bones us).
We manage to get ahead of him, but he starts tailing us all the way across town.
I was terrified, and my boyfriend was freaking a little too. I wished at that point that I had something I could have scared him off with. He finally got bored and left, but I had already called the cops, given them a partial license plate number (he kept pulling up way too close to us so I couldn't see it without getting out of the car, and I didn't think that that was such a great idea; I didn't want him to try to run me over next).
My point is, lately I've been feeling like I should get some kind of protection (I'm a small girl that looks like easy prey), and now I feel that it's necessary to carry some sort of defense. But I don't know guns or ammo. Any advice on what a good, intimidating, yet easy to carry gun might be? I'm willing to learn to shoot, and get my concealed weapons permit, I just need to know what type of gun would be best for me.
P.S. I like the idea of a sawed off shotgun, but that wouldn't be easy to conceal when you're only 5'3"...Lol.
Help, please?
 
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#4 ·
I don't know what your budget is, but a Ruger LCP (380) is very easy to conceal. Or, you might think about a Sig P239 (9 mil.)

Take a class. Call your local gun shop and ask for names of NRA certified instructors. It's better if you have a one-on-one class.

Then, take a CCW class and get your permit.

You won't regret it.

In the meanwhile, you can always carry pepper spray
 
#16 ·
thats a great idea or another way is just to take the class if you have the money the person that teaches the class should teach you everything you need to learn about shooting and gun safety
 
#6 ·
I'm glad first off that everything is ok and you did the right thing calling the cops. Avoidance of the situation is always your best choice and you did a good job of not getting any more involved then you had to.

As far as the gun I would try to find a friend/family member that is familar with guns or call a gun range/gun shop and see if there are any NRA instructors or gun range instructors that can assist you with 1) learning safe shooting 2) being able to show you different handguns and having you test them out. I would definitely recommend contacting an instructor first and then go from there.

Once you've done that and shot a few different calibers/guns then we can throw out suggestions based on what you've narrowed down for us. It's great that your thinking about your safety and the next steps. Keep us updated!
Stay Safe :)

-Chris

P.S. Welcome to the forum!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#8 ·
efowler53... First off, welcome to defensive carry! You came to the right place.

Second, don't get discouraged! When you are new to firearms, picking out your first gun is a daunting task! You're going to get lots of recommendations and I'll address that in a moment.

OK, here's one of the most important things to do first. First of all, you are going to have to come to terms with what it means to carry a gun in the first place. You have to know inside if you are capable of using a gun against another human being. If you don't think you can, don't get a gun. At least not yet.

Everyone must come to terms with what it really means to have the ability to take a human life on a moment notice. One must know what the awesome responsibility it is, to carry the power to take a life with the pull of a trigger. One must feel that their life has value and that no one has the right to violate your body and to do harm against you and that you have the absolute right to defend yourself and to use lethal force if it is necessary. We call this; doing the requisite inner soul searching where you sit down and contemplate just what type of value you place on yourself as a human being; where you stand on drawing the line; and whether you are capable enough to use the gun or to take a life if you feel your life is threatened. We all must do it. At some point you will too.

Why? Because, bottom line is guns do not scare bad guys! If you have any illusions that pulling your gun on a bad guy is going to just magically scare him away you are deluding yourself. If once you pull your gun, then for whatever reason, you can't bring yourself to pull the trigger, you'll likely die. It's just that simple. And it is that real. Now, with that said... There may be lots of times when you may have to pull your gun, and in the end, you end up not having to shoot the guy, Great! It happens! Sometimes, the bad guy does have a moment of clarity and does in fact back down and run away. But Do Not Count On It or Bet Your Life On It!

Read my signature line.... The gun is the great equalizer... It does allow the weak to repel the monsters... Most of the time, it's our only chance. However, you have to be capable of using it.

OK, enough of that.

Now, the most general advice is what kind of gun to get and what caliber. The options are literally endless, so we have to kind of whittle down the choices a bit. Generally, it is considered to be best to carry a gun in the largest caliber you can shoot accurately and shoot well. But we also need to carry the gun with us all the time. A gun left in the dresser at home is of no use when you carrying groceries to the car in some parking lot at night and you become the target of a rapist. So, we also need a gun small enough that you will be comfortable carrying ALL THE TIME.

I will also recommend that any gun you decide to get, try to get an opportunity to try one out first. It doesn't have to be the exact gun, but if you are thinking of a 9mm auto-loader, at least try and get a chance to shoot one. If you are thinking of a .38 special revolver, try and find an opportunity to try one.

Now, speaking of getting a auto-loader (semi-automatic) pistol or a revolver, which one to get. It is a personal choice. I usually recommend a 1st gun choice for a defensive gun to be a revolver. I am not gender biased and only recommend the revolver to women. I recommend this based on size, simplicity, functional reliability and a decent caliber to stop bad guys. Did I start out with a revolver? No! My first gun was an auto-loader. But I now own 3 revolvers and would trust my life to anyone of them.

The revolver is the simplest gun to operate. Squeeze trigger and it goes bang! There are no mechanical safety levers you have to manipulate in order to get it to function. They are safe guns to handle and for the most part are fool proof. They do not malfunction to the level that semi-automatics do. Yes, like any mechanical object, it can jam or fail to fire, but trust me, it is way way rare for it to happen compared to an auto-loader. They are also a little more forgiving if you neglect the maintenance and upkeep on them. I would look at a revolver in the .38 special loading or .357 magnum loading. If you purchase a .357 magnum gun, you can also shoot .38 specials in the gun which is slightly less powerful than the magnum loads. However you can not shoot .357 magnum loads out of a .38 special. The magnum rounds are slightly longer than the .38 special loads and won't fit into the cylinder. The cylinder is the round cylinder which stores the bullets. .38 special bullets do fit into the .357 magnum guns and fire just fine. So you essentially get two guns in one if you purchase the .357 magnum.

As far as auto-loaders go, they are a lot more mechanically complicated to operate with more things to go wrong than with the revolver. That doesn't say a novice can't start off with an auto-loader, but bear in mind, it requires much more training, practice and attention to detail in order to operate. I started with an auto-loader and did just fine. However, I was interested in guns in general and had lots of friends who shot guns and I was willing to put in the time needed to become proficient with it. I would also recommend the 9mm caliber in a first time auto-loader. Most of them hold a lot of bullets and the recoil from the 9mm round is usually quite manageable for most shooters.

What I have offered here, is just some very basic and general directions to look. You have to decide on your own or with the help of some good friends who will help you and not just project their own personal favorites on you.

You should at least have an opportunity to shoot both a revolver and an auto-loader before making up your mind. There are some vast differences between the two and you wouldn't want to sell yourself short by not trying out both.

I also encourage you to come visit this forum often and read up on the discussions and continue to ask as many questions as you like. You'll get tons of help. Remember, don't let people push one thing over another on you. You decide on your own. But you'll get a lot of good advice. We have the best gun forum on the internet here. If you hang out here for any amount of time, you'll quickly come to believe that. We have lots of instructors, holster makers, competition shooters, police officers, former and active duty military and some great tacticians here. There is also a very solid woman's presence here, so you will not be the lone duck in the pond!

I hope this helps a little in your quest. Feel free to ask any question you want.

Also use the Private Message feature if you want to talk privately to someone you want more detailed information or clarification.

Good luck and welcome to our family! I hope you'll become an active member here and join our ranks!

Take care and stay safe.
 
#9 ·
personally, I think Patti gave perfect advice. Get some one on one training from a professional instructor.... preferably a woman that KNOWS the dilemas that other women face in not only how to recognize and face a real threat, but also carry methods that are specific to women's needs. This would be an excellent time for Lima to jump in. Besides, I always enjoy reading her advice myself.


surv
 
#10 ·
Patti is right on!

Before you buy anything, get some instruction and try several different guns to find exactly what you like.

I'll also add, a firearm is a tool of last resort. Not to be used to frighten someone away, but to save your life when in imminent danger. You might look at some unarmed self defense training too. The combination will go a long way toward restoring your sense of safety. :wink:

Oh yeah, welcome aboard!
 
#12 ·
Patti is right on!

Before you buy anything, get some instruction and try several different guns to find exactly what you like.
Yup.

A firearm is a tool, no different than a spare tire, homeowner's insurance, duct tape, a sharp knife, scissors. It's not a panacea that can solve all your problems. It most definitely is to be considered a last-ditch defensive tool for when your life is at legitimate risk of being lost. Frankly, that's a very limited set of circumstances, there, and a fairly rare occurrence for most folks. I've had that happen a few times, but only once in the past 15yrs during which I've needed to draw and defend. (Trust me and others: you don't ever want to be in that situation where you're forced to make that choice.)

Recommendation: If you are new to firearms, find a reasonably-priced course on firearms safety, handling and usage that takes no longer than a day. Perhaps take a second one as well, from another instructor. Ensure the focus is first-time firearms usage, and ensure you will get a decent amount of practical, hands-on firing of a few different pistols/revolvers.

After that, you can consider whether it's for you. I would suggest finding an indoor range that rents various firearms. At such a place, you can go several times and take your time while you evaluate what your use of firearms is going to be. Are you wanting to acquire a home-defense cannon (ie, a shotgun), for use in the home only? Are you going to carry it with you, around town, for defensive purposes? Are you willing to acquire a concealed-carry license and accept what that means ... that you agree to be responsible for every bullet that leaves your gun, whether it strikes a 3yr old child across the street, harms you or a loved one, or ultimately stops an attacker?

Ditto on the point about firearms not being something that'll scare the bad guys. They've BTDT, quite literally. You're 5'nothing; you'll ooze body language and the "look" that shows you've never actually stopped anyone from assaulting you before; and, without some training and dedicated focus on your part, you're highly likely to get the damned thing taken from you and used against you ... unless you get your mindset straightened and hardened. That's going to take a little time and dedication, with proper trainers. And, keep one critical thing in mind: it's not about firearms; rather, it's far more about mindset and proactive defensive steps and precautions that you can take well before a situation ever shows itself.

Here are some thoughts to consider: click.

Oh, yeah. Purchase a copy of the book In The Gravest Extreme, written by Massad Ayoob. You can pick it up on Amazon.com for about $12. If you're serious about concealed-carry and changing your defensive posture while out and about, this book is a must-read.
 
#11 ·
Welcome...

from Central Florida!

Get the Ruger LCP or the KelTec P-3AT...either will assist you with personal security...get training and practice.:22a:

ret :31:
 
#13 ·
Welcome! You have landed in an expert laden area of self defense, conflict avoidance, and firearms. It is a shame that you had to have a scary encounter to make your way here.

You might want to start out reading: Cornered Cat it is maintained by a forum member here. It is a great start.

Assuming you are from Washington State, here is some info on where to get a concealed pistol license:

WA State Licensing: Concealed Pistol License

Go to your local police station, fill out an app, pay $55.25, and they will do a background check (to make sure you are not a convicted of a felony or domestic abuse...) and mail you a permit in 30 days. The permit is necessary to carry a loaded pistol in your vehicle and to carry a pistol concealed on your person.

While you wait, spend some time learning firearm safety, take a class or two, and read up on the law:

Chapter 9A.16 RCW: Defenses

and another great resource:
Handgunlaw.us

PS It is illegal under federal law to saw off a shotgun. Also, it is illegal in WA to carry a loaded long gun (rifle or shotgun) in your vehicle.
 
#14 ·
I was terrified, and my boyfriend was freaking a little too. I wished at that point that I had something I could have scared him off with.
Others have given you some great advice.

I just wanted to comment on the sentence I quoted. A gun is not a toy or tool to be used to "scare someone off".

State laws will very but waving a gun at a reckless driver or some road rage maniac is not the thing to do. Best thing is to drive to some populated area or find a LEO while calling 911 on the phone.
 
#17 ·
First, welcome from FL's Space Coast.

Second, you have already received some good advice.
Read. Study. Decide if you could take a life to defend yourself or a loved one.

Regardless of your decision, learn about situational awareness (SA).
Also, there are methods of self-defense other than guns. Do some learning, training, etc.

Find someone (at your gunstore or range, gun club) who can walk you through basic safety methods. It may be a course. It may be someone knowledgeable you can learn from.

Finally, as has been said, make sure you understand that pulling a gun is a very serious matter. You will only do it when you are in fear for your life or grave bodily harm. If the bad guy runs away (drives away), great. But, you can't count on it.

Your learning curve here will be fast and furious and could save your life. Welcome aboard.
 
#18 ·
I think the gun advice is pretty well covered.

One thing I would suggest based on your description is to not slow down in a similar postion. Maintain your speed and drive normal, let the fool get around you on his own. Get over out of his way if possible. The fool was having a real bad day and the act of slowing him down made it worse and may have contributed to his rage.

If they get in front of you, don't try to pass. I've had people try to follow me while in front of me after some road rage. I would never try to get in front of them again. If they slow down to 5 mph, then I would be going 4 mph. If they stop, then I stop way behind them. I want them in front of me. I can see license plates easier and of cousre I'm dialing 911 for police ASAP.
 
#19 ·
I think the gun advice is pretty well covered.

One thing I would suggest based on your description is to not slow down in a similar postion. Maintain your speed and drive normal, let the fool get around you on his own. Get over out of his way if possible. The fool was having a real bad day and the act of slowing him down made it worse and may have contributed to his rage.
Bingo. This is what started the whole incident. If some fool is in such a hurry, just let them go by - even move over to let them go. Good advice.

If you're going to be armed, you have an obligation to avoid escalating a situation - even if that means suffering a fool. In the end, they are still a fool, and you are the better person.

Other good advice would have been to pull over into a well lit and populated area.

Best of luck!
 
#20 ·
Glad you're safe. Listen to the great advice you've heard on this thread and you'll be much better prepared, not only for road rage but for all kinds of encounters. Let this scare lead you to see the world around you a little differently and get some training to stay safe.

And don't wave a weapon around at a road rager. Call 911, drive somewhere there are people, and find a police officer on patrol if you can. They are the trained professionals and can deal with people in that kind of mindset. Protect yourself but let LEO do their job.
 
#22 ·
Thanks be to everyone who had advice to give.

I do understand that owning a gun is a HUGE responsibility (it scares me a little thinking about the ownership of one). But if that situation were to ever come up where it's either me or them in a life or death situation, I want to be prepared to protect myself and whichever loved one is with me.

Yes, I know that breaking was a really stupid idea (my boyfriend knows this very well now, seeing as how I made sure he knew it was his actions that started it). But in the end, I would like to know that I have in my posession, something that could very possibly save my life the next time I go out my front door.
I will take everyone's advice on here and follow it to the best of my abilities. I am fully willing to take all classes necessary, and practice often. I will read up, study everything and do what I can to make sure I know as close to everything there is to know about guns. BEFORE I carry one.

And I also appreciate all the welcomes I've received. This is by far the nicest forum I have ever been on. I was quite shocked by the politeness and concern of everyone on here.
Thanks again, everyone. You all have helped a lot. And this won't be the last time I'm on here either. :)
 
#27 ·
I do understand that owning a gun is a HUGE responsibility (it scares me a little thinking about the ownership of one).
Some food for thought: click.


I will take everyone's advice on here and follow it to the best of my abilities. I am fully willing to take all classes necessary, and practice often. I will read up, study everything and do what I can to make sure I know as close to everything there is to know about guns. BEFORE I carry one.
Remember, self-defense is 98% situational awareness, precautions/procedures and specific tactics of avoidance; with ~2% being the weapon (firearm, knife, OC spray, H2H skills, whatever). Whatever the "numbers," the point is that a firearm is the least part of all preparations you should make related to your family's defensive posture. THAT should be your focus ... and the firearm will come (or not) to take its place when the moment is right, when you're comfortable that you can add it to your repertoire of knowledge and precautions in such a way that it adds to your protection instead of detracts from it.

Some reading that might be of interest: Gavin de Becker's book, The Gift Of Fear. Added to Ayoob's In The Gravest Extreme and The Truth About Self-Protection, this will help round out your understanding of what self-defense preparations can be done beyond any specific weapons training.

Good luck with everything.

Welcome aboard. :wave:
 
#23 ·
I think the above replies have pretty much covered everything, so with that...

Welcome to Defensive Carry, and I'm glad your encounter wasn't worse than it was.
 
#24 ·
First of all congratulations on being observant of your surroundings. I've seen people cussing and shaking their fists at people and the other driver is too busy jamming to the radio to notice.

No offense, but are you pretty new to firearms or personal defense? If so, training would be my #1 recommendation.

"Something to scare him off with" - If you mean a gun, that would be brandishing a weapon which means jail time.

We carry guns to defend ourselves from great bodily harm or death. The ONLY time that gun comes out is for that reason. No showing the gun to deter someone, no patting your gun to hope they get the message.

Without reading every post, I will guarantee there are a bunch of recommendations for tiny pocket guns and snubnose revolvers. Not that these are bad choices for someone of your stature, but the truth is you need to try to shoot and handle as many guns as possible to see what works for you.

Good luck, be safe and if there's anything we can do to help, just post it. There are no stupid questions. Everyone had to learn somewhere.
 
#25 ·
Glad you both are ok. You have been given some very good advice here. Be sure to go to the Concealed Carry Issues section and read the post that begins "Class A misdemeanor...". This is not a situation that you want to put yourself into, as it could turn out very badly. Safe gun handling, training, and knowledge of your gun laws are paramount to being a responsible gun owner. Those 3 things will serve you well. They will also build your confidence and take away your apprehensions. Take care, and good luck! Welcome to the forum.
 
#28 ·
I'm glad that it all worked out for you. As to your boy friend; if you become defense minded and are blessed to find someone that is of the same mind set you can move through life with less fear of what a bad guy can do to you or your family. It took my wife and I a while to come to this and we now work at it. The following is a quote from another thread on this forum by me. When my wife realized the danger and became proactive about meeting the need for protection we started out on a learning curve and are still on it, but I would not want to be the bag guy that comes after us.

We have being married 36 years and only in the last 2 years have I felt the need to be armed. The funny thing was my wife took her CHL class before me and did quite well. She out shoots me at the range and we together have become situational award, and when out and about we back each other up. For years I protected her now we protect each other. We have a code word for moving up to higher alert and as we regularly go about our daily activities we stay in condition yellow. We both pack same model firearm and ammo and both carry flash light. She is talking about getting a folding knife that fits her need. She has my back and I have her's. Life is good!!
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#29 ·
Yes, I am very new to all of this. I mean, it's not like I've never shot a gun before, but I was also a lot younger and had a lot of close parental supervision in doing so (and have only done it a couple of times).

But that's why I came onto this forum, was to learn from people who have a lot of experience in gun ownership and training.

Just so you guys know, I am taking notes on everything you're telling me to look up and read and study.
Thanks again. You all are helping me further understand the responsibility that comes with possible ownership. I didn't realize that there was quite this much depth to it. No, I wasn't going to get a gun and flash it every chance I got (I like to think I'm a hell of a lot smarter than that). But I do appreciate you helping me to understand it all.
More book references? Or forum references?
 
#30 ·
More book references? Or forum references?
The list of books is a good one. Great place to start.

If you're able, consider attending at least the first half of the LFI-1 course, offered by Massad Ayoob's Lethal Force Institute. He travels around the country and does the training several times each year. LFI-1 is a four-day, $800 course, but you can do just the first half (in the classroom) and cover a tremendous amount of material regarding what the responsibility of carrying is all about. It's well worth the $400 for that first half, or the whole class if you're willing.

In order to get your basic gun safety and handling skills up to snuff, consider heading to an indoor range that rents a lot of guns. Each time you go, spend an hour on the line with another couple of guns (revolver or pistol). It's going to cost you quite a bit in ammo, that year, but by the end you will have learned about the basic assy/disassy, handling and usage of a number of different handguns. You'll be comfortable with the various calibers, getting a feel for what is and isn't your "thing." Perhaps consider purchasing a "blue gun," which can be used for training at home

Definitely track down a competent attorney, one who is well-versed in the legal game of defending justifiable homicide / self-defense cases. Spending a few hours with such a person can be invaluable to helping you navigate the statutes in your state and the not-so-obvious pros/cons of the use of lethal force and carrying of firearms in that state. Generally speaking, you'll find out quite a lot that no book will ever adequately cover.

As far as training goes, you can start with a series of one-day courses. Often, a local range will have concealed-carry classes, for certification. Checking with your police department or sheriff's department, you can often find an experience officer who does civilian training on defensive firearms skills. Taking a variety of courses from several instructors can be a big help to making sense of it all. Each instructor is going to have a slightly different perspective.

And, last but not least, perusing DefensiveCarry.com, TheHighRoad.org and your own state's active grass roots group (ie, Virginia Citizens' Defense League, in VA) can keep you busy with hundreds of discussions on a wide variety of topics.

Be sure to discuss things with your significant other. The tag-team approach to security precautions can make study and prep quite effective.

Remember, defending yourself is mostly about the larger set of precautions and steps you take beyond defensive tools themselves (ie, gun, knife, OC spray, kubotan). It's about mindset; how you see and understand a situation's variables and potential; how well you understand what your options are, at any given moment; your ability to think "like a criminal" in terms of how he/they see you as a victim, and how they see how hard or soft your defenses are.

If you get two or three of the recommended books and spend a month reading through them, you can then add on the time at the range and perusal of DefensiveCarry.com and other online resources. At some point, you'll be ready for a course or two.

Good luck.
 
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