This is a discussion on Argg! Too Many Options!! within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So I am at a bit of a crossroads. I am currently carrying a Taurus 709 and I love it. Seriously, I LOVE the 709. ...
So I am at a bit of a crossroads. I am currently carrying a Taurus 709 and I love it. Seriously, I LOVE the 709. It has all the features I want. It's thin. It's light. The gun is a perfect match for. There are however 2 small issues.
Issue number one. My wife loves it as well. And she doesnt currently have a EDC of her own. She shoots the gun incredibly well and it would make a fine fit for her. I have no issue either giving it to her (Because it gives me an excuse to buy something new! :) or buying her one as her own. I will admit however that it seems like a bit of a waste to me to own 2 of the exact same fire arm.
Issue number two. As much as I have tried to not pay attention to it...I have found myself falling victim to the caliber wars. Even though I know that with modern ammunition the 9mm is a effective round I have found myself craving a big honking .45 for that legendary "Stopping power". What I REALLY would like to have is a 1911 stle compact 45 but there are a few issues with that.
The first and foremost being weight. I have back issues and I need a light gun. This is one of the reason I love the 709. I can carry it all day pain free. Unfortuanetly for me every ounce counts. 2-3 ounces can be the difference between a pain free day and a very painful day.
The other issue is price. I know that there are a few companies out there that make a fairly lightweight 1911 compact but they are out of my price range. I just can't afford to drop 800-1000 bucks on a gun.
Any suggestions for my dilema?
-It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...
May I 'second' the Glock-36. It's my EDC and I absolutely love the gun.
Just pick one up...you'll see.
Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
I don't see anything wrong with having "twins". If it's great for your wife, and great for you also, and you both carry, go for it. Don't try to fix what ain't broke. It's not really any different than owning a different gun in the same caliber.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Plus you and your wife would both have comfort with each other's carry piece.
Don't give in to the caliber wars. It's all hype! Especially given your back issues, the upgrade to a heavier gun sounds ill-advised.
Other than missing the opportunity to "branch out", there is no real downside.
God is love (1 John 4:8)
The root of your problem is being influenced by a society that is founded on consumer excess.
You found a gun that is (relatively) inexpensive and that both you and your wife love. Learn to be content with those situations and not fall prey to consumerism.
Now, I just need to find a GP100. I really love my SW1911PD, my GLOCK 19, my SW 442, but I just "need" a GP100. And an AR-15. And a shotgun. And a...
A traffic ticket is formal recognition of a lapse in situational awareness.
I have two recommendations in order of preference.
1.) Get another 709. This way you and your wife are familiar with each others weapon should something happen that requires her to take yours or your hers. Your spare mags will be identical in case of emergency reloads. And most of all, you already love it.
2.) GLOCK 36 - small, light-weight and .45ACP. It is not a compact 1911, but with your restrictions, I am not sure you will find what you are looking for anyway. Even the lightest Officer's sized models are going to be significantly heavier.
Good luck with your decision.
*WARNING - I may or may not know what I am talking about.
Just buy another 709. If it's already a perfect fit, then...
C'mon, I laughed when I read the OP. You are so looking for a reason to buy another gun! :)
Not that I blame you, I wish my wife would get into guns (as opposed to her knife obsession), then maybe I could have these "dilemmas".
That which does not kill us leaves us broken and bleeding...
Don’t mess with the guy who can barely stand up. His remaining options for self-defense don't include your survival.
Convenire Volui Spectatus
I have posted this the study below in other threads, and will do so again.
One of the best and most cited studies done on the subject of "stopping power" was done by Evan Marshall of the Detroit Police Department back in the 1990's. His study was compiled from data across the country using "real-world" shooting incidents. His study only collected data met this criteria:
- Single bullet (no multiple shots)
- Torso hits only (no head or appendage shots)
- A "stop" meant that the perp dropped within 10-feet of the shot (out of commission)
The data shows that even lowly mousegun cartridge like the .380 ACP has a decent percentage for "stopping power". The percentage might not be in the near 90% range of the mighty .40 S&W, but it is still much higher than most people on this forum would be willing to give it credit. Isn't it interesting that the lowly .380 ACP Hydra-Shok JHP or Cor-Bon JHP have a higher one shot stop percentage than the "legendary" .45 ACP FMJ cartridges. Have we not all seen on these very forums that people would rather carry a FMJ .45 than any small caliber cartridge. The idea being that a .45 ACP bullet does not really need to expand to be more effective than other calibers.
Article based on study: Selecting the Duty Weapon--Is Caliber the Key?
If we decipher the statistics provided by this study, we will see the following 1-shot stop percentages:
- .380 ACP = 62.29%
- .38 Special 2" barrel = 61.90%
- .38 Special 4" barrel = 70.60%
- .357 Magnum = 86.55%
- 9mm = 82.44%
- .40 S&W = 87.37%
- .45 ACP = 82.50%
If you look look at these "real life" 1-shot stop percentages, you will see that statistically there is no discernible difference between the pedestrian 9mm and the "legendary" .45 ACP.
What should this mean to you? Choose the firearm and caliber that fits you the best, and stop over thinking a given cartridge's superiority, which is usually based only on anecdotal reports anyway.
P.S. The reason that many police departments choose calibers larger than the 9mm usually involve an assumption that officers may need to shoot through barriers like auto glass. If you foresee a need to penetrate car doors in a shootout, you may want to look at a .40 S&W based handgun. :)
"Si vis pacem, para bellum"
First, there's nothing wrong with having two of the same guns. Both of you should carry what you shoot best. I've said it before and here it is again:
The "best" gun is the one YOU like, not anyone else. It will be a compromise of:
1. Fit - It should fit in your hand like you were born with it there.
2. Reliability - It should go BANG about 99.8% of the time you pull the trigger.
3. Accuracy - In YOUR hand. It's how well YOU shoot it.
4. Concealability - It should be comfortable enough to wear and easy enough to conceal so you won't leave it laying on the dresser at home.
5. Cost - You don't want to scrimp on your "life protector" weapon, but you probably don't need a $1,000 Kimber, either.True. NO handgun, I repeat, NO handgun is a reliable stopper, much less a "one shot" stopper. Shot placement and number of hits are the deciding factors. Any caliber on your belt is better than a "big, honking .45" sitting on the dresser because it's too big-too heavy-uncomfortable to carry/shoot, etc. A "stopper" shot happens for two reasons: 1. The BG is too injured to continue. 2. The BG is afraid of being shot again.Don't give in to the caliber wars. It's all hype!
No matter whether it is a gun, holster or belt...aw heck...or any other item, it is all about personal preference. Get what works best for you. I carry a 1911 but that does not mean it is right for everyone or anyone. It is not always about round count, velocity or caliber.
I own a BFR 10" chambered for S&W 500. It has more stopping power but I don't carry it....lol OR should I? Excuse me bad guy...will you please back up a step so I can draw my gun
Having you and your wife using the same gun, and same spare mags, would be a great thing!! I only wish my wife would carry a G26...
How many times do I see police officers (either partners, or in the same department) carrying different guns? One with a Glock, another with a Sig?! Mag compatibility, anyone?
As far as the caliber wars...I am also a 9mm guy, but always conceded that there must be some benefit to a larger caliber. I just never could determine if the benefit was worth the trade-off in mag capacity, recoil/follow-up shot speed, and ammo costs. I found some interesting data that convinced me that 9mm is the best overall compromise for me...wrote about it here...
Hope that helps settle "the grass is greener over there" for you as well!
The number of people killed because they didn't have "enough gun" is dwarfed by those who had none at all.
Kahr CW45 or P45 or T45. All are lightweight to satisfy your back, all are very thin and concealable and they come to you for a moderate price, as low as about $425.Any suggestions for my dilema?
Sig Sauer P239 SAS DAK 9mm (EDC)
MR Micro Desert Eagle .380 acp (BUG)
Glock G30sf .45 acp (HD)
Mossberg 500 Tactical Persuader 12ga (HD)
WASR 10/63 AK-47 7.62x39 (SHTF)