This is a discussion on Sig P238 or Kahr P380.....Opinions Plz within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Those two pistols are at the top of the heap of the pocket .380s. I would probably go with the Kahr if I were choosing ...
Those two pistols are at the top of the heap of the pocket .380s. I would probably go with the Kahr if I were choosing a deep concealment pistol as it is less likely to snag clothing.
OMO, but in that price range, you could get a small 9mm or .40 S&W caliber pistol. While these two .380s are nice, the only difference between them and the Ruger LCP and the Keltec P3AT are good sights. Otherwise you are not gaining anything in performance. Kahr's PM9 and PM40, and Walther's PPS in 9mm and .40 S&W also have good sights and are not that much larger, and more importantly, they are an upgrade in stopping power. Just some food for thought.
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FYI on the p238 if you didn't know (found on the Sig Site):
Dear SIG SAUER Customer:
SIG SAUER, Inc. has initiated a Mandatory Safety Upgrade pertaining to our new Model P238™ pistols. We have determined that a small number of P238 pistols may have safety levers that are not manufactured to factory specifications. Under certain conditions, it may be possible for the lever not to be completely engaged in the safe position. In this condition, the gun will not fire when the trigger is pulled. However, when the safety lever is moved to the off position, the hammer may fall, with the remote possibility that the gun could fire unintentionally, thus creating a risk of injury or death.
There have been no reports of any injuries or mishaps; however, in accordance with SIG SAUER, Inc.’s commitment to provide customers with the highest quality products and services, we are issuing a P238 Mandatory Safety Upgrade, to return the identified product to factory specifications. Upon receipt of the firearm, SIG SAUER will, at no cost to the owner, eliminate the risk identified above by replacing the subject part and performing functional upgrades that have been incorporated into the P238, subsequent to its introduction. SIG SAUER will return the firearm, pre-paid, to the owner as quickly as possible.
If you have a SIG SAUER P238 with a serial number between DA000501 and DA003216, please cease use of the firearm immediately. Not all P238s within the identified serial number range are affected; therefore, it is imperative that you contact us via the UPGRADE HOT LINE at 1 (866) 446-1914. An operator will take your information and confirm if your firearm is required to be returned for Upgrading. If necessary, you will receive a certified package from SIG SAUER that will contain a UPS shipping return label, a Return Merchandise Authorization Number, and a box to return the firearm. Simply affix the provided UPS shipping label to the supplied box (completely covering the existing shipping label) and bring the box to a designated UPS drop-off location. Please be certain to include the magazine along with the original SIG SAUER blue gun box. If you have questions or would like further information, you may contact SIG SAUER CUSTOMER SERVICE at 603-772-2302 (Choose Option # 3).
We apologize for any inconvenience and appreciate your immediate cooperation in the return of your P238 handgun.
SIG SAUER, Inc.
"SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM"
(If you want peace, prepare for war)
Just my opinion but I think you gain a lot with the P380.
First for a true pocket piece the idea of a safety is disturbing. I don't like them on a full size carry gun much less a 2 finger pocket piece.
2nd, the Kahr has a wonderful DAO trigger, far better than any other pocket piece I've ever tried and I think a single action trigger is too much for a pocket piece deployed the way you'd expect this gun to be.
Third, the Kahr locks back on the last round which the LCP and Keltecs don't. I don't know if the Sig does so it may be the same. I like the LRHO feature because it's what every other auto I have does so the consistency is great.
You mentioned the sights, they're outstanding.
I do love how the Sig looks; especially the Nitro version with the rosewood grips but I think the P380 is far and away the most suitable for a dedicated pocket carry piece.
Having said that, If I could manage the PM9, I would! But I'm smaller/shorter and the LCP/P3AT's are what fit me.
I have 3 Kahr's so I think it's inevitable that I'll end up with a P380 but I'm waiting for the DLC slide w/night sights. (not that you need night sights on a pocket gun like this!)
I, in no way read any of the above posts, but my next purchase is defiantly a p238! I'm an old 1911 guy and love the condition 1, cocked and locked method of carry. Also IMO, SIG is a excellent maker in firearms and I trust their designs 100%.
With all that being said, I will read all the above
Why not get a 9mm, you may actually be able to find ammo for it.
I can't suggest any as the smallest 9mm I own is a Glock 19, but I'm sure there are plenty of 9mm pocket pistols, Kahr, Kel-tec, etc.
NRA Life Member
With great power comes great responsibility.-Stan Lee
I agree that you should consider a 9mm. I have a S&W M&P9c and want to get a small piece as a backup gun. I am considering the Sig P238 due to it's size and the reputation of Sig, however, I have seen very favorable reviews of the PM9 and there is not that big of a price difference at my local store. Also, I haven't seen 380 ammo ANYWHERE, but I am finding 9mm from time to time and the PM9 will allow me to share ammo between the 2 guns. I still like that P238, but I'm afraid that real life will prevent me from actually getting one.
I am the Walrus...Goo Goo Goo Joob
“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” –Benjamin Franklin
I went to the range today and ran about 110 thru the new P238. 100 FMJ and 10 Golden Saber. I think I had 3 FTE's and 2 FTF's. The FTF's were after releasing the slide from the locked back position, not after manually racking it.
Not good enough for confident carry with that rate but I'll keep shooting it and see what happens. I'll carry the xd9sc until I know I can trust it.
Man, oh man, what a mild recoil for such a small .380. Thankfully, nothing like the LCP and P3AT! I'd estimate the recoil to be at least 25%LESS than those two little kickers. Very accurate, too. All in all, I'm pleased and will give it time to work out the eject issue. Who knows, I could've limped it those times.
For me the Sig is a no-go since there's no ambi-safety. I don't like the hammer-back cocked/locked in a pocket pistol. Too much room in there for crud to collect in front of the hammer. Plus, the safety could easily be jarred while pocket carrying, you'd need a holster which covers both the trigger and safety.
No thanks, the Kahr will be my next gun. Looked for one last weekend at a show. No one had them, but i saw several Sig's. Plus the safety recall is a little unnerving. The P380's been out longer.
Been carrying the Sig P238 for about a month.
I too was looking at the Kahr, but couldn't find it in the local shop. Then I turned my attention to the Sig, which I finally found after checking about four shops. The first shop was getting in several of the Sig P238's but they never made it to the floor - the shop staff kept them for themselves!
I was a little nervous about the single action thing... but not now. Single action is a great trigger and provides some options. I have made a commitment to go to the range several times a month to remain proficient. Shooting a pistol is a skill that needs to be practiced. With the single action Sig, I practice 3 shot bursts. They come off so fast that it's like taking two shots and then we are ready for target check and reload. I don't think I could do quite the same thing with a double action trigger.
The Sig P238 is actually fun to shoot. I would consider it a range gun. You can't say that about the Keltec or Ruger LCP. I don't know about the Kahr. What I can say is that I like the all metal feel of the Sig. I had some FTE's during break in. But shooting is pretty good now. There is some kind of issue with the magazines ( I picked up two extra) that can lead to an FTE on the last round. I noticed a slight difference in the follower shape on the mags. So I will check that out some more.
For carry... following the discussions that .380 hollow points don't penetrate enough and full metal jackets penetrate too much... on my carry I put in alternating fmj and hollowpoints... out of seven shots, something should get a bad guy's attention. I carry the P238 in my back pocket like a left handed wallet. Use an Uncle Mike's #1 pocket holster. The Sig is exposed a little at the top of my pocket, so I use a folded handkerchief tucked over the top just enough that I can quickly uncover it. This works really well. I am not too concerned about a speed draw - I just want to have my gun available and if I can find a way to have it with me always, then that works. Now I also wear a light fleece or sweater.. so it's really hidden away. I am sitting on my gun right now and can't really feel it. I have to admit that the Keltec/LCP/Kahr would probably conceal just a little easier.
I carry six plus one. I load up and then carefully release the hammer back to the up position. I also throw the safety on. So the trigger can get pulled all day long and nothing is going to happen until I trip the safety and drop the trigger. I feel comfortable that I can do this automatically pretty fast. And with a loaded chamber and the single action trigger, those shots are off pretty darn fast. Actually, I really like this option, an option I wouldn't have with a DAO.
I took a use of force class, where we used a simulator that provided shoot/no shoot situations. I was very pleased with my performance and accuracy. This was a direct result of practicing on range. While other's would shoot-pause-shoot with widely disbursed shots... My shots were rapid fire, center mass just like on the range. It was really cool. The simulator gun even had recoil.
ok, so I ran another 50 rds thru it today and had....drumroll plz....ZERO FTFs or FTEs! I paid $31 for a box of Prvi Partizan (sp?) and man, that round smells gooood! Kinda like a 2 stroke in the woods on a cold winter morn.....
I packed the mag full with one in the chamber and rapid fired it and it was a beautiful thang!! So, a short history.....FTF and FTE issues with Blazer Brass, no issues with Golden Saber and no issues with PP. I'm feeling better about this now.....
Oh, and I agree with sixplus1....THIS .380 can be classified as a range gun. It's a blast to shoot. What other .380 can you say that about?
the kahr is way easier to shoot with the same ammo. the two guns might be the same caliber but the kahr is much better designed(my opinion of course). the sights are much better to see. trigger is way better. i will sell the lcp for sure. my next toy will be a 340 m&p cause it seems like you can't get more power for the same weight. yea yea yea i know its not a all day shooter, but i just have to have one. but then again a nice sig 238 looks real nice for half to price of a 340. academy in my town has a sig 238 for 429.00. maybe santa could bring me a new gun!!!!!!!
I tested my Sig 238 with PMC Bronze FMJ and had no problems.
I'm hoarding some Cor-Bon HP's so next time to the range I'll try a box of that.
I'd like that as my S/D ammo, but it has to run flawlessly.
My Sig has night sights and they are WAY better than the sights on my Kahr PM-9.the (Kahr) sights are much better to see.
12,000 Sigs in stock. Sorry I have no Sig P238 in stock.
Kahr MK9 9mm or .40 S&W $690, $788.00 w/
Special November only- While they last:
Kel-Tec P-3AT or PF-9 $239.00
Ruger LCP .380 $239.00
Glock 36 $281.00
All are new.
UPS Ground Shipping and transfer fees extra.
PM me to buy.
If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
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