This is a discussion on Warthog update within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Yesterday I hit the range again with my fairly new Para Warthog. Up till then I had put roughly 500 rds through it without a ...
April 23rd, 2006 10:34 AM
Yesterday I hit the range again with my fairly new Para Warthog. Up till then I had put roughly 500 rds through it without a hitch. This range trip was a bit more disappointing.
I started with 50 rds. of Rem. 230 gr. FMJ. No problem. Then 20 rds. of Double Tap 230 gr. JHP. Each magazine had 1 or 2 stovepipes. Then 20 rds. of Corbon 230 gr. JHP, same results with the stovepipes. Switched back to FMJ and put another 250 rds. of mixed brand and mixed weight ammo without any real problems. At the very end it did not go into battery once and I had to push the slide forward. I attribute that incident to the gun being very dirty by that time.
The interesting thing to me about the stovepipes was that they were all with live rounds. When I have had stovepipies with other guns in the past it was always with the spent round getting caught upon ejection. Each of the live stovepipes happened mid magazine and just stuck straight up bullet end first.
This is a bit disconcerting. I have read about feeding issues with some Warthogs, but after 500 rds I was beginning to feel fairly safe. Also I would like to use either Doubletap or Corbon as a carry round. I will continue to experiment, but are there any words of wisdom from you guys here?
In the meantime I continue to carry my G26 which has never, ever failed at any time under any circumstances with any type of ammo. Kind of a good quality in a carry gun.
April 23rd, 2006 10:34 AM
April 23rd, 2006 10:58 AM
My gunsmith told me that all shorty 1911's suffer from feeding issues, I think he said it was because the barrel, can't drop as much to accomadate the feeding of the round?
April 23rd, 2006 12:03 PM
I am thinking two things here - recoil spring already tiring after 500 rounds and - sufficient drag on slide to prejudice feeding.
I stopped using grease on my 226 ST because of the really quite severe slide drag even with only partial crud effects. Std pressure rounds became a problem, tho +P were OK.
Stovepipe live rounds suggests that the slide fwd excursion is not ''brisk'' enough to get round to start chambering fast enough, and so they flip up. You mentioned also failure to go into battery once - another thing that to me spells ''slow'' slide or slide drag.
All I can think of right now. But I'd look at these aspects.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
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April 23rd, 2006 12:15 PM
Possible Words Of Wisdom...
Let's say that it's more difficult to get some chopped semi~autos to feed and function 100%
(1) ~ The first thing I would do is only take one specific ammo type/brand with you per testing session.
You've (sort of) already have done that & are now reasonably certain that you're OK with Rem. 230 gr. FMJ - that's a good start.
One additional side note is that all shorty semi~autos need to be gripped HARD.
A relaxed grip WILL cause various function problems with chopped autos. Grip that pistol HARD.
(2) ~ The next thing that I would do is buy a few more factory magazines & start marking any mags that give you any feeding problems.
You might just have a yukky magazine problem.
You need to eliminate any possible bad magazines for a carry pistol.
(3) ~ One test to do is ease the slide forward to SLOWLY chamber a round & see exactly what hangs up & where. Be CAREFUL doing that & pay attention to what you are doing. If the round DOES NOT chamber when the slide run slowly forward then a slight bump on the rear of the slide should chamber the round.
You need to make sure that the round can easily slip up into the extractor as it chambers and also that it does not hang up anywhere in feeding. All untuned extractors are the second largest trouble makers in semi~auto pistols. If the rear of the cartridge cannot run up the extractor then the bullet nose can't enter the barrel chamber & the remaining slide energy will either stovepipe the cartridge or the nose will jam into the top of the barrel chamber.
You could have one or more magazines with a bad followers.
(4) ~ You may just need to have the pistol tuned if your shorter OAL cartridges are stove piping. You may have one mag that is releasing the rounds a bit too soon.
The problem might be something as simple as polishing the top of the chamber & lightly breaking the bottom edge of the barrel chamber mouth.
You also could try a slightly heavier recoil spring.
If you really like the pistol & that is the pistol that you want to carry then it's well worth having a qualified pistol smith tune it for your intended defensive ammunition of choice.
There really should be no physical reason that it should not function reliably.
You could try a heavier magazine spring to keep the rounds in a half empty mag forced harder up to the underside of the mag feed lips.
If the magazine spring is weak and...the extractor is rough...then there is not enough upward magazine spring pressure to get the top round up into the extractor...then forward slide momentum continues moving the cartridge forward and the cartridge is releasing from the mag feed lips but cannot enter the barrel chamber. That is either a guaranteed jam or a live round feed stove pipe.
I hope this information helps.
April 23rd, 2006 01:46 PM
I reckon that this is really the crux of the matter. Do I like this pistol enough to invest in it? I am not sure. It is easy to carry and conceal, it has 11 rounds of .45 and it is a good shooter. I really did start to get the hang of the little pig yesterday. At 30' I was able to make one ragged hole with 50 rds. At 50' I could keep 50 rds. within 5", with my tired old eyes that is about as good as it gets. It might be worth getting it tuned.
Originally Posted by QKShooter
Thanks for the great info from all of you guys. I will continue to play with it taking your suggestions into account.
April 23rd, 2006 03:24 PM
A quick question if you don't mind....I justed looked at this gun at a local shop yesterday and my primary concern was the way the bottom back edge of the grip appeared to "dig in" to my hand. It appears to be a pretty rough design...just terminating mid palm instead of rounding into the mag.
Is this a problem? Is it painful to shoot?
April 23rd, 2006 04:49 PM
I do not find the Warthog uncomfortable to shoot at all. As I said, I put 340 rds. through it yesterday in one sitting, 400 rds. in the previous session and 150 rds. first time out. Very comfortable and manageable for me, your results may vary.
Originally Posted by DParker
April 23rd, 2006 05:45 PM
QK pretty much hit it with what he posted i would look at mags first and recoil spring
April 23rd, 2006 06:19 PM
P95 mentioned slide drag, and my Para C6.45 LDA had a peening problem, so maybe that could be causing slide drag in yours.
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April 24th, 2006 12:55 AM
Replace mag springs with Wolff 10 round springs They will be a B### to install and will take a few days to get 10 rounds in but this will help a bunch. New recoil springs also would be nice. Now my P-10 was never reliable with 230gr. Lighter the better 185 range. Also 230 has no power from these pistols I have shot my barn wall and pulled bullets out with my fingers. Commander gave me holes and daylight. I seen 230 stopped by 1/4" Lexan Again my commander shot right thru. Redid test with lighter faster rounds and worked fine. Corbon Makes a 160grDPX non +P at 1050fps from a 3" It worked perfect in mine. In fact I carry that load in Commander now.I gave up on these 3" and went back to Commander size 8 round mags and better control. Just as easy to carry.
April 24th, 2006 09:32 AM
Wow, the knowledge and info on this forum is truly remarkable. I have ordered some Wolff mag springs as a starting place. I will see if that helps. Thanks to all.
April 25th, 2006 12:20 AM
Keep us posted Goose.
As you may recall, I have a newer Warthog (from 4 Seasons).
I've experienced one FTF with a JHP, and had thought that may have been due to a very dirty gun, at the end of a range session.
I don't have as many rounds thru this pistol as you do, but have used
Blazer 230 FMJ, Rem GS 185, Fed HS 185, LRN 230 reloads.
Re: the MSH backstrap sharp edges, my hands got used to that.
Fenix, Olight, iTP, AMK
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April 25th, 2006 07:38 AM
QK has a great start for you. The only thing I have to add is that I had a similiar problem with one of my guns (granted, it was a WWII full size 9mm automatic), but I did bring away a bit of wisdom from the experience. I would advise investing in some dummy rounds (particularly for #3 of QK's post). The ones I found are bright blue plastic with metal bottoms (for the extracter to catch) with a spring loaded button by the primer so you can dry fire without damaging the firing pin. They will let you do feed tests safely without having to worry about a A/D.
"To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." Ted Nugent
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April 26th, 2006 03:13 PM
Snap caps are good. I've been "firing" away at the t.v. evenings....
Fenix, Olight, iTP, AMK
Forum Member 8% Discount code dccwms8
May 9th, 2006 07:24 AM
And you get less felt recoil with the lighter loads.
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