The coffee pot's in the back of the room!!
This is a discussion on Range Report, Taurus PT145 Millenium Pro within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The coffee pot's in the back of the room!!...
The coffee pot's in the back of the room!!
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"
Hey guys, yall wanna go get a few beers? I'm buying!!!
Wait...that's what got me kicked out of AA.
Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.
I've been daily carrying the 145 for some time now and have really grown to like it very well! I agree it is quite accurate for a small 45! I also have the PT1911 and it also is a very good shooter out of the box. ENJOY.....Boorah
Most people go through life wondering if they made a difference. Marines don't have that problem! Ronald Reagan
I suspect that most of the criticisms are from well intended shooters, based sometimes on experiences from a time when Taurus first entered the US market, and/or criticisms based on patriotism, and Taurus' foreign origin, and that's fine too.
But, just on the merits, I suspect that many have not given Taurus a new look in years, or personally evaluated their products recently, within the last 5 years. That doesn't diminish problems some may have had with them in the past. But, today, they have nothing to be ashamed of compared to the other brands.
I've been in the firearms business for 30 years. I have access to all the brands, and I've dealt with all the customer service departments, etc...I even have my own criticisms of Taurus, mostly minor design issues with my Millennium Pro, mag release button positioning, and I prefer three dot sights to the Heine Straight Eights. These are things I would like to see corrected, but no criticisms that exceed any of the other brands, and my opinions with respect to these "flaws" are primarily subjective.
My own evaluation of the internal parts and mechanisms of my PT140 Millennium Pro indicates that Taurus now produces firearms that are as good as any of the supposedly better quality, more expensive brands. Warranty? Taurus has a lifetime warranty too, and I've experienced no difference in dealing with their customer service department versus any of the other manufacturers.
I don't mean to sound like some kind of advocate, because I have no affiliation with Taurus, or any particular allegiance to them. I just find a lot of the quality criticisms of Taurus to be short on technical justification, and my actual experiences with Taurus firearms to be generally quite positive. With respect to reliability, my own Millennium Pro PT140 has exceeded the reliability of several other, more expensive, brands.
So, with all sincerity, and all due respect to some of the criticisms that may be valid to someone's specific circumstances, I'd like to know...specifically, what are the internal quality differences between the Taurus Millennium Pro versus all the rest of these supposed higher quality, better reliability polymer firearms I frequently hear about, most of which cost considerably more? Perhaps other more expensive brands provide a higher level of longevity that justifies the price, but I don't see any difference with respect to Taurus' reliability.
This is a great thread. I bought a PT709 a few months ago and have been really impressed with it. So much so, that when I stumbled across a 24/7 OSS DS .45, I snapped it up yesterday. What a gun for the $$$! Taurus has come a long way. I will post a review of the OSS when I get some range time on it.
Next - to answer your question - here are a couple of links that are worth your attention:
Why do I hate on Taurus 1911s?
Why I don't work on Taurus revolvers | Revolvers, Gunsmithing, Personal opinions | GrantCunningham.com
I have 3 "Tauri" - 2 snubs and a 9mm Millennium, and all have served me well, but they range i age from 9 to 20 years old. I've been disappointed with a lot of what I've seen and read (especially here) that relates to Taurus quality and indifferent customer service in more recent years. JD's post (first one cited) had some good pictures that illustrate some of the problems.
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My first was a 24/7 Pro Compact ~4"bbl, 10+1 mag, 12rnd mag. It was a good gun, but it wasn't as accurate as I would want it to be- aim at the same spot twice, might hit it again, might not. Don't know until you pull the trigger. Never more than about one bullet-width off, but still, that's a BIG difference at 15yds versus at 7yds. Then back it out to 20yds... --Not a bad gun, but not the best either.
My second (and current) Taurus, is my PT22. 9 round capacity, tip up barrel... nothing too special. (But, it's all black- almost got the 'highlighter green' frame, but decided against). It's been a good gun; out of almost 200rnds, only 5-10 FTFs/FTEs (using cheap bulk ammo- none at all with the CCI Mini-Mags). I plan to keep this one for a long time.
...Where'd you say the coffee is..?
"Rock and load, lock and roll... what's it matter? FIRE!!"
"Gun control means hitting your target every time."
Please take everything I say with at least one grain of salt- I am a very sarcastic person with a very dry sense of humor.
Thanks for the welcome, and I appreciate the links. I reviewed the links and agree that machining, and raw material quality, are the key to a quality metal firearm. I guess, I should have been more specific and targeted the polymer firearms in my inquiry, which have virtually no machining, and I should have even been more specific in targeting their personal defense, concealed carry weapons as the subject of my initial comments.
The Taurus link you sent on the 1911 was a terrible representation of quality. I suppose one could assume that if the machining quality of the metal firearm is poor, that their polymer firearm quality might be just the same. But, my experience with the Millennium Pro, and the entire Taurus polymer concealed carry, self defense product line has been just the opposite so far.
With respect to the polymer firearms, I actually do own a Smith & Wesson M&P9, Full Size, which is flawless. I also own an M&P40C. The first time at the range with the M&P40C, it had to go back to the factory due to (5) dead triggers out of (75) rounds. Just got it back, and haven't had a chance to try it out yet.
The Taurus had it's own problems too, but they were very minor compared to a dead trigger. Never had any problem with Dear Trigger, FTF or FTE with the Taurus. It had to go back to the factory because of an inadvertent mag release, most of which I believe were my thumb hitting the release button, which is the design flaw I referred to in my earlier post. Taurus claimed that the mag release mechanism needed replacing, and they did so, but I believe it's more a design issue with respect to mag release positioning than anything else.
I don't particularly like the Straight Eight sights on the Taurus, and the sights needed to be set too, shooting low and to the left. The factory took care of that at the same time as replacing the mag release mechanism. I had it back in two weeks. The Smith & Wesson was back at the factory for warranty repair for about 4 weeks. So, my experience with respect to customer service is generally acceptable from both manufacturers, assuming the M&P40C functions properly this time.
Eventually, I replaced the straight eights on the Taurus with Williams Fire Sights, which have been great, and they've increased accuracy due to their being adjustable, and easier to pick up on. The Taurus accuracy was perfectly acceptable, palm size groupings at 15 yards, but the Williams Sights probably cut that in half. I also reversed the positioning of the mag release to the other side of the Taurus. I actually prefer it to the M&P40C. However, will give the M&P40C another go around, and may prefer it to the Taurus, assuming the dead trigger condition has been corrected.
I guess my point was that all of the polymer models, including Glock, Smith & Wesson, SIG, etc...have their negative testimonials posted on the blogs and websites. I was shocked that I had to return the S&W right out of the box, and just as shocked that the Taurus faired so well against it for the price difference.
Last edited by Captain1201; June 22nd, 2012 at 03:49 PM.
I have a PT145 and it shoots well and feels great in my hand. The problem I have with it is if you try to clear an unshot bullet it sometimes gets jammed because the bullet isn't much smaller then the ejection port. This isn't good in a stressful situation if you need to clear the chamber for some reason.
Also, the plastic dust cover on the back of the slide broke and after a year of constantly calling the CS center I finally got a new dust cover.
I now use the gun as an emergency gun in the spare bedroom.
Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway.
I really liked my Taurus millennium pro until, at around 1000 rounds, the trigger spring broke while doing double taps. I lost confidence at that point and sold it.
"Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"
For me, the jury's still out on the M&P40C to replace the Taurus. My expectations were high. Frankly, I was SHOCKED at the M&P! I received it back from S&W, and I'll give it a thorough testing and go from there.
carried one and shot many a IDPA with it. as you found out--its accurate. my defender suprised me with 1.5" groups at 25 yards.
when this did the same i was very pleased; not to say a bit suprised: its half the price.
downside is a longer lock-time. but in a SD encounter that is not a point against the gun.
Arthritis sucks big-big
Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them