Kahr P380 woes.....

[claybreaker0]

Well I got my P380 back from Kahr last week after sending it in for well over 10 light strikes, 5 just in the last 25 rounds of 300 rounds total. The work states that they replaced the slide, and the barrel. So to me it sounds like they basically replaced the whole gun, except for the polymer frame? I took it to the range today and it fired great, but all my shots were hitting about 6-8" lower then were I was aiming. I do this sometimes with my pistols bc I anticipate recoil. So I slowed down, positioned my sights correctly, and pull the trigger super slowly until the gun went off....still way lower than were I was aiming. This is what I have been taught to do when I am shooting low, and it has always resulting in my shots coming up to where I am aiming. But today it didn't, even after 150 rounds every shot I took was in the same place, 6" underneath the center. Now this concerns me, bc today I was only shooting at 7 yards...before I sent the gun back to Kahr I was shooting at 15 yards and every shot was perfectly on target and had incredible grouping. I was AMAZED at how accurate the little Kahr was.

I included some pictures, I started aiming at the top of the red center circle...and this is where they ended up. I was only at 5-7 yards so its not like I was shooting at great distance.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[JodyH]

The shots all the way down in the 7 ring tell me it isn't the guns fault.
I see a lot of recoil anticipation going on.
Notice I didn't say flinching.
There is a difference.
Have someone else shoot the pistol (an experienced, good shooter), that'll help determine whether it's a mechanical problem or whether the nut behind the trigger needs tightening.

[tokerblue]

It looks like in your sig, you have 3 other Kahr's. I also have 3 Kahr's (MK9, PM9 and P380) and they are extremely accurate. My guess is that it's not the gun though.

1. Does this happen with your PM9 or CW9?
2. Did you try shooting from a benchrest?
3. Are you sure it's not from anticipating recoil?

I recently put a Crimson Trace LG-437 on my PM9 and it corrected some bad habits I picked up through the years. I noticed I kept on moving the PM9 too low in anticipation of recoil. I was putting groups in almost the same position as you. Once I corrected my trigger pull, everything was in the red. I'm getting a LG-433 this week for the P380, so I will be able to do some more testing soon.

[Don Glock]

sorry to hear that you sent it in with one issue, and they sent it back with another.

usually manufacturers will install a different height front site to compensate for shooting high/low, but yours is shooting pretty low for only being at 7 yards. not sure if a new front site can remedy that. i would call kahr, and demand that they fix the issue, even if it means a new barrel fitted.

this is all assuming it's not you causing it (which happens to the best of us, my friend)

[BugDude]

Make a simple wooden jig that will hold the handgun frame and butt level and still while you shoot. Take a laser pointer (or laser level in my case since I have one of those) and make sure your gun sights and jig are actually aiming properly. Have a buddy mark the laser spot with a sharpie on a piece of paper (old target, back of target). Then hold the pistol and squeeze the trigger making sure the pistol does not move during the process. This should absolutely tell you if it is a gun problem and to what degree it is gun versus other. This will be valuable information to Kahr if you have to send it back.

[claybreaker0]

Thank you for all your replies....now I'll explain

JodyH: The shots above 9, and above and below 7 are my first shots when I was initially aiming at the "X" in the red dot. And that is great advice to have someone else shoot the pistol, I'm torn between the embarassment of someone being right on target, or having to send it back to Kahr

tokerblue: After shooting the P380 so low, I brought out my PM9 and shot 3 low rounds before I stopped my anticipation, then I shot right on target for the next 25-30 rounds. I then loaded up the 380 again, and was still shooting it low unfortunately, no matter how controlled I tried to be. I did not have a table, or rest, but this weekend when I go back with a buddy to shoot it, I will will bring one.

Assy Mcgee: Thanks for understanding, and not making me feel like a doof for anticipating recoil!!

bug dude: GREAT IDEA!!!! I will do that for sure, thank you for sharing with me your brilliant mind! lol

[BugDude]

bug dude: GREAT IDEA!!!! I will do that for sure, thank you for sharing with me your brilliant mind! lol

That proves it's you and not the gun. You're delusional. Don't waste your money sending it back to Kahr.

[longtrain58]

Claybreaker,
Don't be too hard on the 380 or yourself. Let's face it, you have a 10 oz polymer framed pistol with a two inch barrel, nearly flat sights with dots to line up, a very small sight radius all combined with a very long trigger pull. The pistol is intended for point blank range.

Throw out everything you have learned about firing your other Kahrs, the .380 is a different animal.

When I bought my first Kel-Tec I had a hard time hitting paper at 7 yards, it looks to me like you did pretty well for your first few mags. I had to go back to methods I learned shooting the Taurus 85 CH also a 2" barrel.

To be consistently on target for me required dry firing the gun a lot to learn the trigger take up and where the sear disconnects. The Kahr is a striker fire! You probably know that the trigger can vary a bunch with different pistols.

Next, fire the pistol with a very rigid wrist from a rest or sand bag to verify it will shoot to point of aim. Once you are satisfied the sights are on, you're going to have to put a hundred or so rounds through it to learn to control the point of aim while you are pulling the trigger through to disconnect; again do this with a very rigid wrist. The tendency for all but the most experienced shooters is to hit the target low left of the 10 ring. These are not target pistols and quite frankly I don't like firing them; its like a little explosion in my hand and it seems like the trigger and trigger guard is attempting to take off a knuckle every round I fire.

I carry my pocket pistol 24/7 and I fire a couple of mags through it every time I go to the gun club. I still don't like it. I just like the idea of having a pistol in my pocket all the time. I hope my experience helps you to get better with your little Kahr.

[RebelRabbi]

Send me the gun and $500 and you will never have to worry about it againi! LOL
Seriously, it sounds like they may have relaxed the tolerences a bit at the factory. A littkle filing and fitting work. The gun appears to be shooting fine, it does look like a trigger pull problem. Practice Practice Practice!
If you just can't come to terms with a DAO trigger get yourself a Sig P238 and a good thumbreak holster for Cocked and Locked carry.

[claybreaker0]

Thanks for all your suggestions, and keep them coming! I will take them with me to the range this weekend for another go at it.

RebelRabbi, I love the Sig P238 trigger.....I am just not comfortable with a thumb break safety for pocket carry. And during the summer I carry a pocket pistol frequently. I fight myself everyday though, because that P238 trigger is WONDERFUL.

[elkmanal]

This is what I do with my p380 and it helped a lot.
Put your left thumb on the grip and wrap your right hand around the grip and your left thumb, then use the rest of your left hand fingers to support the gun in a similar fashion you would use with a 2 hand grip. This really stabilizes the little gun. Once you get it right you will be very accurate.
Elk Man

[Stevew]

Back up to 15 or 20 yards and see where it is hitting.