Just for Home Defense. - Page 2

Just for Home Defense.

This is a discussion on Just for Home Defense. within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by ncglock I would ask you to reconsider your HD weapon. Based on your experience and awareness a shotgun would provide stopping power, ...

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Thread: Just for Home Defense.

  1. #16
    Member Array mynameisFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncglock View Post
    I would ask you to reconsider your HD weapon. Based on your experience and awareness a shotgun would provide stopping power, less accuracy and in most cases won't kill the BG. I travel often and if my wife god forbid had a break in she would simply point the gun and shoot. Sounds simplistic and it is, no aiming, no worrying about bullets going through walls. She simply points and lets the 5, 6 or 7 shot do the rest. IMHO
    no aiming?

    5, 6 or 7 shot?



  2. #17
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    My vote would be a 12 ga hd shotgun, along with a 38/357 revolver and a really good light.

    Plus a class on either hd or concealed carry as it includes lots of good info on the legal side of using a lethal force weapon.

    If you want fun to shoot get a 22 too.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncglock View Post
    I would ask you to reconsider your HD weapon. Based on your experience and awareness a shotgun would provide stopping power, less accuracy and in most cases won't kill the BG. I travel often and if my wife god forbid had a break in she would simply point the gun and shoot. Sounds simplistic and it is, no aiming, no worrying about bullets going through walls. She simply points and lets the 5, 6 or 7 shot do the rest. IMHO
    Huh? Shotguns contrary to popular opinion have to be aimed. At a range of less than 21' a shotgun with a modified choke will have a spread of approximately 4", if using standard 00 defense loads. When using tactical loads such as the Federal Controlled Flite loads, the spread is even less. Under these circumstances, aiming is crucial, shotguns are not death rays that can just be pointed in the general direction of a threat and let fly, they still require skill to untilize.
    As far as the comment of in most cases it won't kill the bad guy?? If using a 12ga 00 buck load or a slug, you will most assuredly kill him at "social distances" A 230gr JHP round has around 400-450 ft/lbs of kinetic energy, the numbers for 165 gr .40 and 115 gr 9mm are fairly similar. The 55gr JSP 5.56mm has around 1200 ft/lbs of kinetic energy. The 12 ga shotgun loaded with 00 buck? approximately 3200 ft/lbs of energy.
    I have personally observed at least 12 people shot with shotguns in my 8 years as a patrol officer. All but one of those people died except one guy who was shot with a 20 ga loaded with birdshot. Everyone else took COM hits to the torso, which was shredded by the 9 pellet 00 buck loads. Sorry shotguns, when loaded correctly kill and must be aimed.
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  4. #19
    Member Array wkientz1's Avatar
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    My HD is a Mossberg 500, G23 for carry almost 24/7 and an XD for my bug. Hubby said I am armed to my teeth...well...almost!! Love the feeling!
    Bill and Izzie: Proud parents of a soldier.
    I thought of you all day today when I was at the zoo.

  5. #20
    Member Array LawyerDagget's Avatar
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    I have to disagree with some of what you are being told here.

    7 1/2 shot from a 12 ga. will penetrate sheet rock at home defense ranges. Buckshot will penetrate it to a higher degree obviously.

    7 1/2 shot is effective at home defense ranges. It is lethal, to suggest that it would just pepper someone is nonsense. It is often the better choice over buck.

    You have to aim a shotgun for home defense purposes, whether buck or bird shot, it is not a death ray that you put in the vicinity.

    I would suggest looking at some of the patterns of 7 1/2 shot at 15 feet. Patterning examples and penetration demos were done on several popular self-defense shows recently if you can find the clips. If you choose a shotgun you should pattern it with every type of ammo you contemplate for home defense.

    A Glock 17 is excellent. Many like weapon mounted lights, others like handhelds. A pro of weapon mounted is two handed shooting. A con is potentially covering a non-threat in order to illuminate them. In a street situation that could be aggravated assault.

    I would get some solid training in defensive shooting, tactics and mindset. They would assist you in these choices. You need to evaluate where in your home you are vulnerable, thus where shots are likely to be made, the backstop etc... Depending on the layout of your home and where people are, you may never need to move. You may also have to go across the house for an elderly parent or child. All of these things matter in the decisions you are trying to make.

    Money invested in training will make your equipment money be better spent. It is really more about your skills than the equipment you choose. It is definitely more about the planning and thinking ahead you do in a home defense situation than the equipment.

    Either a pistol or shotgun could be a great choice, both give you more options.

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncglock View Post
    no aiming, no worrying about bullets going through walls. She simply points and lets the 5, 6 or 7 shot do the rest. IMHO
    If you do not aim a shotgun the pattern at typical ranges found inside houses will result in a miss, or only hits from a small number of pellets at the edge of the pattern. I have no problem with using big birdshot, I do it myself, but it must be put on target with lots of pellets to hope to be effective. There is an article in this month's American Handgunner about a man killed with #7 1/2 birdshot from a .410. I know of a fatal shooting with a .38 CCI snakeshot. Fluke, but possible, and by no means less than lethal force. My own HD loads are big birdshot from Federal (Flite Control) or some old Remington Duplex BBx4 shot which I hear is back in production.

    Hit a rental range with a decent instructor and try lots of different guns. approach with an open mind, but do some research on your own to avoid getting ripped off or sold something less than desireable. I keep both pistols and long guns for HD, they compliment each other. Can't answer an unexpected knock at the door with a shotgun every time, can't move down a hall and carry a 2 year old to the safe room with an AR, can shoot through a bunch of drywall with a handgun or rifle round.

    And if you can't wrap your mind around blasting a big hole in a criminal to the point where they die, and it's really OK if you're not there yet, get a dedicated less lethal option like the Kimber Lifeact or a big "Bear Spray" kind of OC and hold off on the gun.

  7. #22
    Member Array Bfunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ananael View Post
    Please take this kindly, in the spirit it is meant!
    I think you need to take a good defensive pistol class and consider the reality of what your decision means. There are no "just hurt him" guns. None. Ever. A gun is a final decision. Please, talk to a professional and consider your choices after getting some training.
    +1... you need to get into the mind set that if you are going to save you and your families lives, you may have to take the life of the BG. A firearm is a deadly weapon, and until you are comfortable with that, maybe you should look into pepperspray or a tazer.
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    "To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." Ted Nugent

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncglock View Post
    I would ask you to reconsider your HD weapon. Based on your experience and awareness a shotgun would provide stopping power, less accuracy and in most cases won't kill the BG. I travel often and if my wife god forbid had a break in she would simply point the gun and shoot. Sounds simplistic and it is, no aiming, no worrying about bullets going through walls. She simply points and lets the 5, 6 or 7 shot do the rest. IMHO
    What!?

    Based on your experience and awareness, please refrain from giving poor advice and perpetuating myths. Even if intentions are good, you are doing everyone far more harm than good with a post like that.

    I'm out. There is plenty of good advice already here, us common sense, you will be fine.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array RebelRabbi's Avatar
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    The very best advice here is that you receive a copious amount of competent training in gun safety and marksmanship FIRST. Take the opportunity to shoot several different types and model,you may be surprised what you do like.
    I agree with your logic that the handgun is far easier to retain than a long gun but you do give up shootability and power when you do so. The Police carry the handgun only because it is portable not because it is superior, it is not. The Glock 17 is a good choice for your needs. It is simple in operation, reliable and durable as well. I consider the 9mm to be adequate for self defense when loaded with quality Premium Hollow Point ammuntion. Make sure that your gun likes the ammo you choose, shoot at least one box (50) to be certain that it functions reliably and prints where it should. Consider a weapons mounted light such as the Streamlight TLR-3.

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array dnowell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncglock View Post
    I would ask you to reconsider your HD weapon. Based on your experience and awareness a shotgun would provide stopping power, less accuracy and in most cases won't kill the BG. I travel often and if my wife god forbid had a break in she would simply point the gun and shoot. Sounds simplistic and it is, no aiming, no worrying about bullets going through walls. She simply points and lets the 5, 6 or 7 shot do the rest. IMHO
    Take a look at Shotgun Pattern testing - FirearmsID.com

    At the distances inside a home, the shot will barely spread out. It certainly won't help your wife hit if she's not aiming. Perhaps you're looking for a claymore?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bfunk View Post
    +1... you need to get into the mind set that if you are going to save you and your families lives, you may have to take the life of the BG. A firearm is a deadly weapon, and until you are comfortable with that, maybe you should look into pepperspray or a tazer.
    IMHO, ( 40= years of training in PD) This is the MOST CRITICAL thing you ( & your Spouse) MUST come to "grips with". !!!

    As to the Weapon, ( handgun ) I SERIOUSLY recommend a good quality REVOLER. Simple to use in "a situation" & Reliable.

    Puffer

  12. #27
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    For home defense I use a coachgun, 12ga double 18 inch barrels or a Win. 92 44mag trapper with 16 inch barrel both are short enough to use inside a house.(moving thru doorways etc.) and powerful enough for anything 2 or 4 legged. Both are backed up by a Glock 23 and others.

  13. #28
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    For home defense I use a coach gun, 12ga double 18 inch barrels or a Win. 92 44mag trapper with 16 inch barrel both are short enough to use inside a house.(moving through doorways etc.) and powerful enough for anything 2 or 4 legged. Both are backed up by a Glock 23 and others.

  14. #29
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    You want home defense? Look at a saiga 12. 19 inch barrel, magazine fed semi automatic shotgun. With a magazine you can have different ones loaded with different things so you can adjust as you need. Look at #4 buck shot for inside and 00 for outside. You can also mount a light and or laser on it. No one wants to be on the business end of that. You can have everything from 5 rounds, 10 or 12 rounds mags to a 20 round drum.

    Plus they are a blast to shoot and pretty cheap if you use birdshot.

  15. #30
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    Josh,

    I too would recommend that you re-consider your decision not to go with a shotgun. At close range, shotguns are by far the most lethal (legal) weapon you can own.

    Your goal is to stop the intruder and protect your family. Period. Now depending on the type of home you have, neighbors, etc, it may determine what type of shell you use.

    But keep in mind that a shotgun throws out a minimum of 8-10 "bullets" (or more, depending on shot size) at a time. Your odds of stopping the BG are much better.

    Consider this- You have a pistol, the BG has broken in, and sees you and is coming after you. You have ONE CHANCE to pull the trigger and stop the intruder. If you miss, you may not have enough time to get off more rounds.

    A shotty will do that for you. Even something like a Remington 1100 semi-automatic will keep firing shells without your having to pump.

    I pistol has its place in home defense, I have several available at all times, but I would reach for the shotgun first.
    Last edited by JonInNY; January 28th, 2010 at 05:17 PM. Reason: Stupid Mistake and Typo
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