Carrying cocked and locked in close quarters

This is a discussion on Carrying cocked and locked in close quarters within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Chevy-SS PRECISELY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yet there are many here who insist that 'condition 3' makes a weapon useless, or turns it into a club.- ...

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Thread: Carrying cocked and locked in close quarters

  1. #46
    Ex Member Array Compact45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy-SS View Post
    PRECISELY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yet there are many here who insist that 'condition 3' makes a weapon useless, or turns it into a club.-
    IMO it is very useless or very near too useless in condition 3 for a very quick and intense situation. If there is lots of warning of a situation then it might work for some people.

    I will stick to Cocked and Locked +1 ...

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  3. #47
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy-SS View Post
    PRECISELY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yet there are many here who insist that 'condition 3' makes a weapon useless, or turns it into a club.

    -
    And many that are forced to carry that way agree that it is useless which is usually why the moment the OOD is out of ear shot a round gets chambered.

    So why exactly do you think a 1911 is perfectly safe for competition but not carry, what exact details make "X" more safe than "Y"?

    Don't just make blanket statements, what DETAILED info do you have to support any of your statements that the gun is not safe.

    What about a Sig 220 SAO, Hi Power, Colt Mustang, 226X5 etc.? Are those guns that aren't 100 years old not safe as well just because they are single action guns?

    I'm just not seeing any real correlation between what your saying about a DA/SA gun being more safe than a 1911. What do you think makes them more safe?.

    If you've all ready answered that somewhere I haven't seen it.

    Inquiring minds want to know.

  4. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy-SS View Post
    PRECISELY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yet there are many here who insist that 'condition 3' makes a weapon useless, or turns it into a club.

    -
    That makes no sense? It's comparing apples to cumquat's. You're talking about someone who also has a rifle, if they know they are going to see combat, they'll charge their weapons, civilians don't have the luxury of knowing when they will need their gun, if they did, the smart ones wouldn't go there.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

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  5. #49
    Senior Member Array jca1's Avatar
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    Carrying a firearm unloaded is like keeping your car parked without tires and then putting the tires on when you need to drive it.

    An unloaded pistol is a hammer, period.

    I can see a person thinking that he/she is not safe enough to carry a C&L 1911, but never that the C&L 1911 isn't safe enough for the person.
    If I gave a crap about what you think about my guns.....it was early this morning and I already flushed it!

  6. #50
    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    And many that are forced to carry that way agree that it is useless which is usually why the moment the OOD is out of ear shot a round gets chambered.
    Hmmm. BTDT. And a number of the OOD's gave tacit approval. Especially when the ship was docked in a foreign port. I never understood why those of us who were in the Weapons Division on board ship were not given the task to train and qualify Roving Patrols so that they could carry cocked and locked. One of those imponderable ponderables.
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

  7. #51
    Senior Member Array C Bennett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent47 View Post
    I've heard all the stories about people taking a huge chance with the M1911 being carried cocked and locked, is it advisable to carry it in very close quarters environments like dance clubs/parties where you could get bumped - this might be a dumb question though so bear with me...
    so what do you think would happen..the slide safety gets knocked off, the backstrap safety gets depressed and the trigger from INSIDE a holster all get pulled/pushed/flipped off ALL at the same time making it go boom????? play the lottery if you think ALL that all at the same time is gonna happen cause you have a LOT better chance of winning the lottery.

    Quote Originally Posted by aric View Post
    When I carry a 1911 its in condition 1, no exceptions.
    No exceptions, ever.
    good, cause if your not you got a real nice CC CLUB and thats about it .

    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy-SS View Post
    I have a full-size 1911 and I would never consider that thing a CC gun. I've shot many thousands of rounds (target and IPSC matches) with it, but no way would I carry it around.

    Many posters here obviously feel 1911 +1 CC is uber-safe, but not me. Let's face it, the gun was designed in 1911, that's a hundred years ago. Safety was not exactly the primary concern back then. There are many safer carry guns out there now (virtually any SA-DA) for CC.

    If you're gonna go to any 'dance clubs/parties', the very last thing you should be wearing is a cocked and locked 1911.

    Just MHO.

    -




    one of the safest CC weapons out there, I myself prefer a 4" model for CC over a 5" model but extremely safe no matter what era it was first thought up in. thinking its not safe make me just think
    Last edited by JD; February 6th, 2010 at 04:28 PM. Reason: multi-quote if your friend...

  8. #52
    Senior Member Array C Bennett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Compact45 View Post
    The design and its age has nothing to do with it.

    With my over 37 years of competition, shooting, tactical shooting, instructer, and defensive carry experince with a cocked and locked / loaded chamber 1911... I respectfully totally disagree with your opinion and statements.
    100% most of the AD's are because of people NOT fully knowing the weapon they are carrying and are not AD's they are NEGLIGENT discharges because they forget one of the steps in loading or unloading the gun...they dont just accidentally go boom while walking..they go boom because someone messed up. Most of the range or unloading mishaps discharges happen when a person forgets to drop the magazine and racks one in the slide or tries to drop the hammer even if they are being careful on a live round and their finger slips off the hammer....

  9. #53
    Member Array Emrah's Avatar
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    Ok, I'm new here, and I'm not trying to step on toes, but I can't understand why someone who has shot and competed with 1911's for so long can POSSIBLY say that they would not trust it as a CCW weapon.

    1911's are probably the safest semi-auto handguns in existence. Cocked and locked is the way to go. They don't go off by themselves. Even if the thumb safety were to become disengaged, the grip safety would need to be depressed AND the trigger pulled.

    EVEN IF the hammer should somehow fall on its own, there is a half-cock notch. EVEN IF THAT notch should somehow break and the hammer should actually fall, most 1911's usually have a firing pin safety. Not all, but many do. The hammer could fall all the way down, slam into the firing pin, and the pin would go nowhere.

    I trust my 1911's implicity because I know every square millimeter of them and know exactly how each one operates. Not to be rude, but 1911's ARE NOT beginner's guns. One must absolutely study and understand EXACTLY how they operate in order to understand just how incredibly safe they are.

    On the other hand, I personally have a MUCH bigger problem carrying say, a Glock with it's "trigger safety". A safety on a trigger? Really???

    Emrah

  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD View Post
    It's not a dumb question.

    There isn't anything to worry about, the "1911" pistol is still one of the safest handguns ever designed, just because it was designed over 100 years ago, and some are afraid of them, is absolutely irrelevant.
    +1, can't improve on that statement, Emrah said it well also.
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  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccwguy View Post
    Too many safeties need to be disengaged at the same time for that to happen: Gun out of holster, grip safety in, thumb safety down, trigger pulled.
    True. There's just no way the gun will discharge. You're at a place and the thumb safety gets wiped somehow. So what? The grip safety would still have to be depressed and held while simultaneously somehow reaching in to the holster (which isn't possible) and pulling the trigger. No way.

  12. #56
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    A 1911 design handgun has more safeties than any other weapon that civilians can own.

    Glocks have about the least number of safeties. A safety on the trigger face, really?? And a relatively short, light trigger pull compared to the DA mode of pistols or revolvers. Yet no one asks if carrying a Glock is safe.

  13. #57
    Member Array Emrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoFan View Post
    A 1911 design handgun has more safeties than any other weapon that civilians can own.

    Glocks have about the least number of safeties. A safety on the trigger face, really?? And a relatively short, light trigger pull compared to the DA mode of pistols or revolvers. Yet no one asks if carrying a Glock is safe.
    Precisely the point I was making as well. I mean, look at how many AD's are caused by people re-holstering their Glock or other gun with no external safeties. Finger in the trigger guard and all that. Not happening with a 1911 with the safety on.

    And just to add to the "out of sight, out of mind" mentality, people don't seem to realize that the internal strikers of many DAO "hammerless" guns such as Glocks are carried with the striker partially cocked. No "evil, menacing hammer" in plain sight just looking to fall and shoot an innocent victim at breakfast at Perkins. And how many hunters walk around the woods with a round chambered in their rifle? Or shotgun?

    The fact that the military didn't let soldiers carry C&L means nothing. They don't even allow them to carry the Beretta M9 (Beretta 92) with on in the chamber, and that's a DA/SA gun with a safety. Hell, if we're goin there, they DON'T EVEN TRUST soldiers to even HAVE weapons on military bases. If they did, Ft. Hood would have had a whole lot less fatalities and injuries.

    Emrah

  14. #58
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    1911 was design to be carried cocked and locked..

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