Just for the info in case ya want to debate it

Just for the info in case ya want to debate it

This is a discussion on Just for the info in case ya want to debate it within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Took a kid to a Grand Jury hearing yesterday in which he is accused of murdering a close relative. In conversation with these people I ...

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Thread: Just for the info in case ya want to debate it

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Just for the info in case ya want to debate it

    Took a kid to a Grand Jury hearing yesterday in which he is accused of murdering a close relative. In conversation with these people I try to learn a few specifics without hearing too much, if you know what I mean. Anyway I learned that he allegedly shot the victim one time in the abdomen with a 25 acp, which killed him almost instantly.


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array wormy's Avatar
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    Are you sure it was the abdomen? Sounds kinda strange a .25 in the stomach would kill you instantly. Maybe in the head or something.
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    Senior Member Array usmc3169's Avatar
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    Well, .22 LR will kill instantly as well if it hits the right spot - I have also seen a man survive having 1/4 of his brain removed by a 7.62 sniper shot, and a man take six 7.62 ball rounds to the torso and sit on the side of the road for 4 hours holding up his own plasma bag.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    As for head shot, A .25 fmj or hp may not penetrate the skull depending on location, distance, and angle. In the abdomen, a fmj could penetrate soft tissue and hit the spine. Not enough details to know for sure.
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    Senior Member Array Sportsterguy's Avatar
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    The aorta is the main largest artery in the body and travels down through the abdomen. If you hit and sever it death will occur very, very quickly!
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    Member Array uncballzer's Avatar
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    The only "instant" kill it could do would be hitting the spine after traveling upwards far enough in the thorax to get to the sympathetics to the heart--unlikely. It could also hit the abdominal aorta, causing one to bleed out which will take a few seconds to a minute or so (can't say for sure on timing), as you'll quickly become intravascularly depleted of blood and the brain will then shut down from lack of oxygen. Also, it could again travel upwards through the diaphragm and puncture a lung causing a pneumothorax--here again, you'll still have one lung and able to breath, although in quite a lot of distress. Those are the only options I see, and feel are very unlikely (and these are for any shots to the abdomen--if they hit the abdominal spine, at most it's just going to cause paraplegia below the level hit).
    BLONDIE: You may run the risks, my friend, but I do the cutting. If we cut down my percentage... cigar? Liable to interfere with my aim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sportsterguy View Post
    The aorta is the main largest artery in the body and travels down through the abdomen. If you hit and sever it death will occur very, very quickly!
    Yeah, what he said.

    So much for the bigger is better theory.
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    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
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    It's all about shot placement...
    "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
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    VIP Member Array jwhite75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sportsterguy View Post
    The aorta is the main largest artery in the body and travels down through the abdomen. If you hit and sever it death will occur very, very quickly!
    Worked as a investigator in the Medical Examiner...this man is very right. Hit the right button and the game is over....no matter what the projectile.
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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncballzer View Post
    The only "instant" kill it could do would be hitting the spine after traveling upwards far enough in the thorax to get to the sympathetics to the heart--unlikely. It could also hit the abdominal aorta, causing one to bleed out which will take a few seconds to a minute or so (can't say for sure on timing), as you'll quickly become intravascularly depleted of blood and the brain will then shut down from lack of oxygen. Also, it could again travel upwards through the diaphragm and puncture a lung causing a pneumothorax--here again, you'll still have one lung and able to breath, although in quite a lot of distress. Those are the only options I see, and feel are very unlikely (and these are for any shots to the abdomen--if they hit the abdominal spine, at most it's just going to cause paraplegia below the level hit).
    ^^ I'm going with that ^^ I had to go get one of my wifes RN text books to look up half the words you used before I had any clue what in the heck you were talking about. It sounds good to me.

    Next time my wife gets on to me for kicking back in my recliner I'm going to say, "My sympathetics are causing my pneumothorax to act up again and I'm feeling intravascularly depleated. So please stop chewing on my backside so I can rest my abdominal aorta or my brain will shut down due to lack of oxygen." I'm sure her response would be, "it's obviously too late to avoid the whole brain shut down thing."

    I'll let you know if my new defensive strategy is successful....I'm not real hopeful.
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    Senior Member Array rhinokrk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinistrMalic View Post
    It's all about shot placement...
    And luck.
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    Member Array nlax2011's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm going with it got the aorta. Definitely could've hit the spine but at that level it would have dropped him (paralysis) but not necessarily killed him instantly.... sympathetics for the heart come off higher up the cord so they shouldn't be affected.

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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nlax2011 View Post
    .... sympathetics for the heart come off higher up the cord.
    Sounds like lyrics to an 80s rock band love ballad.
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    Senior Member Array Avenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmc3169 View Post
    Well, .22 LR will kill instantly as well if it hits the right spot - I have also seen a man survive having 1/4 of his brain removed by a 7.62 sniper shot, and a man take six 7.62 ball rounds to the torso and sit on the side of the road for 4 hours holding up his own plasma bag.
    You and I have chewed the same dirt my friend! I shot a guy in the head with a 5.56 at about 300yds, skull capped him, he fell, picked himself back up and continued to run with his brains leaking out. Kinda gruesome, but when someone is all hopped up on narcotics or adrenaline, they have almost super human strength.

    A .25 caliber round to the gut, he probably died from the shock of being hit. It happens. Or it wasnt exactly instant death, probably hit his descending aorta and he bled to death in about a minute.

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    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Or the inferior vena cava. Or angled up and got the pericardium causing pericardial tamponade, or nicked a cardiac artery, or an artery in the spleen, or went down and got the upper femoral artery in the groin, or caused bleeding in the airway causing the guy to 'drown', or... the list can go on and on...
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