Number of Rounds fired in Gunfight?

Number of Rounds fired in Gunfight?

This is a discussion on Number of Rounds fired in Gunfight? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hi folks, my first post. Got out of shooting 15 years ago. Sold guns and reloading eq. Plan on getting a CC permit and do ...

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Thread: Number of Rounds fired in Gunfight?

  1. #1
    Member Array bowzette's Avatar
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    Number of Rounds fired in Gunfight?

    Hi folks, my first post. Got out of shooting 15 years ago. Sold guns and reloading eq. Plan on getting a CC permit and do some shooting again. Did a little speed plate shooting, was a reserve deputy and went to the Thunder Ranch handgun class in the mid 90s. Have owned 20 handguns over the years of various calibers and makes. So much for background. My memory from the "old days" is that the average gun fight was app. 2.5 rounds. Has this changed materially in rescent years. The CC instructor where I'll take the class said that the trend today is facing multiple threats-2-4 BGs and relying on 5 or 6 rounds is risky. Or at least starting off putting yourself at a potental disadvantage. Are there new statistics out or is 2.5 rds still accurate?


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Chevyguy85's Avatar
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    From what little I've heard, but I haven't researched it, its 6 rounds or less. Again haven't researched it but that seems to be the consistent number I hear. I carry a security six and I never feel under gunned having 6 rounds of .357 magnum in the gun

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    Welcome...

    from Central Florida!

    I carry 6 + 1 and feel just fine, and with an extra mag or two...I'm good to go.IMHO

    ret
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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    The last one I knew of here..... 68 rounds fired just by 2 LEO's and not counting the BG. The whole thing was within 15 ft in the wide open, and the BG was only hit once in the leg. No LEO was hit. The Police car behind them had a bunch of holes in it.

    On the other side, many times there is more than one BG who's armed, so plan accordingly.

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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Statistics are cold comfort when you are the exception.

    Statistics also lie.

    I know about lying. I'm an attorney. (Insert joke here...)

    The "average rounds fired in a gunfight" is in and of itself obfuscatory because their are, in fact 3 ways to determine an average.

    The most common one, the arithmetic mean is determined by the sum of all of the list divided by the number of items in the list - 10 gunfights with rounds fired: 1, 5, 4, 8, 1, 2, 1, 18, 1, 2 has an arithmetic mean of 4.3 rounds fired.

    HOWEVER...

    The mode, the number which appears most frequently, is 1. This can be considered an average as well...

    The median, well, that's not really relevant to this conversation, so I'm going to ignore that...

    Using the arithmetic mean as a basis for determining how much capacity you need is insufficient for a number of reasons as well, among them:

    #1 The source of the statistics are usually law enforcement. Your actions are likely not going to be similar to their needs, nor are your circumstances going to be similar.

    You will not have a partner to support you or be able to call for support (you need more ammo than cops...); however, you will probably be not be conducting any sort of investigatory encounter requiring you to take people into custody (or you need less ammo than the cops...)

    #2 Your own personal situation. I carry a Glock 19 with 2 spare mags in my pocket, but then again, I can dress to conceal it, don't do a lot of heavy lifting were it would print...and while I'm not going to show it to people in the office, I really don't care if people I work with know I'm armed.

    If it would cost you your job to carry a gun...well. A mid size glock may not be the thing for you.

    Make an individual choice based on your circumstances and what you are comfortable with.

    Don't rely on other people's math for your carry choice.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Statistics are cold comfort when you are the exception.
    Exactly. The silly thing is? You're gonna be the exception, sure as sunshine.

    What I mean is, this. The thing about an "average" is that you're about 99% likely to experience something other than that exact number. More or less? Who can say.

    The characteristic factors that drive how crimes play out will depend wholly on the circumstances. Will your attacker be solo or multiple; coked up or straight; going on loss of sleep or well-rested; have a deadly weapon or not; be well-trained with that weapon or not; have a backup weapon or not; have done this specific crime before, or be out of practice; will you look like a juicy target to the specific criminal, or not; will you be solo or in a group at the moment the criminal decides to mark you; will you do proactively do anything to escape being a mark, as you're being marked, or will that simply challenge the little bugger to mark you anyway; and so on. Some factors will affect whether the crime occurs at all (ie, rounds=zero), while others will alter its duration.

    Moral of the story? There are simply too many variables that'll play out in any specific situation to make reliance on averages of the safer/better thing to do. You won't know 'til you get there. In short, better safe than sorry.

    What I do, then, is to generally have two weapons; generally have 8-10x the "average" ammo on hand, with me; as well as having a tendency to avoiding the majority of risky behaviors that seem to correspond with opportunistic attacks. It's hard to do much more, else it would begin to alter the lifestyle. Works for me. YMMV.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; March 7th, 2010 at 10:37 PM.
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    Not sure what the average is although I do recall an NYPD study that demonstrated LEO’s fired more rounds in similar shootings after transitioning from revolvers to semi-autos. I know I would feel more secure with extra rounds left over vs. not enough to cancel a threat. Still, I’m only prepared to go so far with how much stuff I haul around.
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saber View Post
    Not sure what the average is although I do recall an NYPD study that demonstrated LEO’s fired more rounds in similar shootings after transitioning from revolvers to semi-autos. I know I would feel more secure with extra rounds left over vs. not enough to cancel a threat. Still, I’m only prepared to go so far with how much stuff I haul around.
    I guess the logic being, if you have more rounds why not use a few extra?


    For the record I carry a 5 shot snubby, follow the rules of stupid and never feel undergunned. If I can't get away after bringing 5 hot and nasty .357 rounds to the situation then I shouldn't have been there.
    I haven’t heard any of the journalists who volunteered to be waterboarded asking to have their fingernails wrenched out with pliers, or electrodes attached to their genitals.

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    Senior Member Array FastDraw's Avatar
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    My only experience in a gunfight (firefight) would be several hundred rounds fired...... (That was in a jungle many decades ago)....

    Since then I haven't had to fire at or kill anyone. My guess that today in CCW action 3-6 rounds would be more than enough......... Right or wrong I'm sort of stuck on the goal of two to the the chest and one to the head.

    Be Alert and Stay Safe

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  10. #10
    Member Array NC Buckeye's Avatar
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    I thankfully have never fired one, but father (retired LEO) has been in 2 shootings and fired 3 shots total (2 were misses).

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    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    I figure you should carry what you will be comfortable with. I carry my revolver because that's what I'm comfortable with, that means I'm going to be very careful where I place those 6 shots because their is no guarantee that I will be able to bring my 2 SLs into play.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

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    Member Array richgp100z's Avatar
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    I agree with Chevyguy85 on his post because I carry the same gun in a 3 inch barrel. With 4 hks SpeedLoaders. 2 in each pocket. richgp100z

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    I Carry 15+1 with me... but My advice is carry what you are comfortable with. I know people who carry revolvers because that's what they can shoot well. God luck!
    NRA Certified Rifle/Pistol Instructor
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G18CFw0lnD8

    Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.

    If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.

  14. #14
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    It wasn't clear what happened to those 20+ guns you have owned over the years. Sold or still have? Assuming several are not revolvers, and one will be your carry gun, you will most likely have 9+ rounds. Should be enough but an extra mag isn't all bad. My feeling (and I may be all wrong -- as usual) is that most folks on this forum carry an extra magazine in case of a malfunction rather than the need for more ammo.

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
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    Shot Placement?
    Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.

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