In need of help after tonights situation

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Thread: In need of help after tonights situation

  1. #1
    Member Array b1780's Avatar
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    In need of help after tonights situation

    Mods: If this is in the wrong section please move it. The following leads to my question about how to carry on and off body 2 sidearms. Thank you.

    It started out like any other night out with my wife. We went out to get a bite to eat. Like most women that enjoy shopping, my wife said she needed to run a few errands and I tagged along. She went into a beauty supply store and I stayed behind in the car. We were not in the best neighborhood but she was armed so I was not to concerned about her going into the store without me. After about 15 minutes or so, I see out of the corner of my eye a gentleman approaching my direction from about 20yds or so. I keep a close eye on him as he approaches. My phone rang and slightly distracted me as he continued to approach my direction. I am just being observant to this point. He then starts on a direct path to my vehicle. Now alarm bells are going off. As it is quite warm here I have my windows down. As he continues to get closer I put my hand on my G27 in my CBST at 4:30. The gentleman now is directly next to my vehicle and leans on my door. He wants money to feed his family. I very sharply demand he back away from my vehicle and tell him I am not interested. In the past few months that I have had my CHL this is the closest I have come to actively drawing on an individual. Had things continued the glock would have been presented and we would have gone from there.

    My apologies for the length of the above, but I wanted to clearly explain the driving force behind my question to the great folks here at DC. I have felt for a long time that having 2 guns is very prudent. 2 is 1 and 1 is none type of thinking. I also have a G22 that was to be my original carry piece but the darn G27 is so convient due to its size. I am now completely sold on the idea of having to accessible weapons on me at all times, especially while in the vehicle. Tonight I have discovered that it is a slow draw from my current position and I want access to options as quickly as possible. I love my CBST and am wondering what you folks suggest for option for my G22 and accomplishing my goal here. All thoughts and suggestions are appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to read such a long post. It was not my intentions to offer a long drawn out scenario, I just felt that the some background info was important to my question.

    Thanks

    Brian
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I don't like 4:00-5:00 carry. It is uncomfortable (for me) sitting in a vehicle. I prefer 3:00, it is more comfortable, faster and is not impeded by the seatbelt. YMMV

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    Senior Member Array CCWFlaRuger's Avatar
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    I too prefer 3:00... as far as a second weapon, and more convenient, you may want to consider a satchel, VersiPack, or a murse/fanny pack of some sort, seeing as no matter where you are set up, drawing from on the body while sitting will be inconvenient unless you are wearing a shoulder rig.
    "You will not rise to the occasion and you will not default to your level of training. You WILL ONLY default to the level of training you have mastered."
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Why did you let him get close enough to slash your throat before you could draw,I woulda eyeballed him and asked what he wanted as soon as it looked like he was heading at me.It wouldn't matter how many guns you had once you let him close that close he could of owned you,One thing you could have done is exited your vehicle and casually walked to the other side,thus putting a barrier between you and him.If he tried to get to you after that,you could prove self defense and that he was trying to attack you
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    Member Array b1780's Avatar
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    Very good point, this was definately a learning experience tonight. Any thoughts regarding my question?
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid.

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    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    To compensate the difficulties of drawing from my belt or inside the pants holster, I have and use a Kingston car seat holster from Desantis. When I enter the car, I unholster my pistol from my own person and holster it the car seat holster that is between my legs. When I leave the car, I do the exact opposite of what I do when I enter the car. Again, something to look at.

  8. #7
    Member Array luke213's Avatar
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    Drawing from a car can be fairly difficult depending on the holster and the car. Some cars of course have different seats which the more sporty the harder they often are to draw from. My two favorite car carry methods are shoulder and ankle, they also happen to be my least favorite carry methods for anything else. I've found though that in both my Grand Cherokee and my motorhome(the only two vehicles I really drive these days) I can draw my 1911 and get it into play quite quickly from 4-5 o clock IWB. The primary thing is to practice drawing(well ideally drawing and firing if you have a private range etc where you can, remember that ear protection though, car interiors are small). Also another trick that I think I first saw Massad Ayoob do is to tuck your shirt up over the gun once you sit down, allows you to get to the gun much easier if need be, downside is your no longer truly concealed and you need to watch you legal situation depending on what state your in.

    Overall never hurts to carry a second gun, I figure the old Boy Scout motto still applies, "Be Prepared".

    Take care!

    Luke
    I am the owner/proprietor of www.adamsholsters.com Custom holsters made for you. To contact me please use E-mail rather than Private Messages, luke@adamsholsters.com

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    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    I see that you're in MN; that should give you an array of cover clothing options.


    I would suggest carrying the G22 in the CrossBreed and the G27 in a shoulder rig of some sort. Either a traditional style, a la Miami Vice, or undershirt style like the 5.11 Holster Shirt. The Truss system from SpecGear is noteworthy, also

    Another option is to carry the G27 in a pocket holster, in a cargo pocket or similar. And don't forget the SmartCarry.

    YMMV
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

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    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    I'm not sure of your lifestyle, so it'll be hard to recommend certain carry methods of 2 handguns for you, but I'll list some options I've used. Maybe you'll find a method or two you'll favor.

    2 guns on the waistline:
    I currently am carrying 1 gun appendix and 1 at 9 o'clock, both fullsize. IWB or OWB doesn't much matter, just whatever is comfortable and concealable if your state requires.

    The appendix gun can be accessed fairly well while seated, especially if the shirt is moved out of the way beforehand, and also if the seatbelt is undone, which I recommend if you are going to be sitting in a car that isn't moving for any length of time.

    One gun accessible to each hand.

    I've also worn a revolver in a straight-drop holster at about 7-8 o'clock (instead of the auto I'm wearing now at 9 o'clock) which allows me to draw it with either hand, assuming I'm not sitting in a vehicle.

    2 guns in a dual-holster SmartCarry
    Good for NPEs, not so good for drawing while seated.

    One gun accessible to each hand, assuming the SmartCarry is accessible.

    One gun in a shoulder holster, one around the waist
    I like this for long trips where I can access the shoulder holster easier than anything around my waist while I'm strapped in a vehicle.

    Carry in a shoulder holster is okay for times when I'm not driving, but lately I've been favoring something around my belt due to the quicker access, and also because the shoulder holsters I use sometimes feel restrictive.

    Something off-body
    I don't favor this, but on rare occassion I'll use it when no other option fits. Last week I carried my .45 in a dayplanner, plus a pocket .380, for a doctor's appointment where I thought I was going to strip to my undies with the doc in the room.

    I have used a secured holster in between my front seat and the console of my vehicle for quick deployment, but recently I favor just tucking my shirt behind my appendix gun.

    Pocket Carry
    You can mix and match, using 1 gun in the pocket and 1 gun any other way, or 2 guns in 2 separate pockets. Pocket carry is a quick draw if you are standing.

    Others
    I haven't tried ankle carry yet. It seems to work well for some, but not others.


    You have several options. I determined to find out what worked best for me, and to find more than one option, so I ended up spending some money on holsters. I don't see any other way unless you can borrow holsters to try them.

    Holsters are so subjective that it's hard--or impossible--to determine what will work for you unless you actually try them. Reading reviews is fine, but I do not find that to be a reliable indicator of what works for me.

    I have 3 or 4 boxes of holsters (small boxes ), and I use many of them. I do have my favorites, but no one holster is the best for every situation. (I also have a few different types of guns, hence the need for more holsters if they are form fitted.)

    My best personal indicator of whether I made a certain good choice is, after it's all over, if I would make the same choice again. As far as trying a bunch of different holsters, and carrying in many different ways, yes, I'd spend the money and go through the trial-and-error processes again.

    It may take some time, and a little money, but I'd encourage you to try a multitide of different ways to find 1) what ways work the best for you, and 2) to give yourself different options for when those unusual needs come up.

  11. #10
    KDD
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    I always have a second gun in the vehicle. Dependent on which vehicle it is either in the middle console or between the seat and console. I can have it in action very very quickly and never have to move my body. If for some reason I have to get out with the gun I still have my carry gun on my person. May I ask why you didn't simply roll up the window so he could not have immediate access to you?

    KDD

  12. #11
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    I keep my normal carry which is either OWB at 3:30, or IWB/SOB when in the car. If I think I may be in a questionable place, I take a second firearm in a holster placed between the seat and console...I have been doing this more and more lately.
    Since I purchased my Ruger SP101...it's in my SOB holster along with a Glock at 3:30, then in the car I put the Ruger in another holster next to the console.
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  13. #12
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    Most people will find that trying to draw from a holstered gun from a sitting position inside a vehicle somewhat cumbersome. This usually applies whether you are wearing a seat belt or not, but often times a seat belt will make it even more difficult. It's just a fact. Some people have worked out a carry method or position on their body which seems to work for them, but the simple fact is, that for most people, drawing from a holstered weapon inside the confines of a car is going to be somewhat slower than when you are standing up and free of such confines that you find seated inside a vehicle.

    You either accept that limitation, or you make adjustments and look for other means of improving your readiness.

    As most people seem to only carry one gun at a time, many choose to unholster and place the gun in a way which gives them quicker access. Others carry two guns. A primary and a back-up and will place one of their guns in a more accessible place for quick access. Still other people have a "dedicated car gun" they either leave in their vehicle or take into the house every night and bring it out during the day.

    Generally speaking, it is unwise to have a "loose gun" in the car. By that I mean, either laying on the seat next to you or lightly stuffed between the seat and console or two seats without a method of securing it. The reason for that is that if you are involved in an accident, or even have to perform harsh evasive driving skills, or simply have to power brake, the gun can become dislodged from it's un-secure position and be lost somewhere on the floor of the vehicle or under the seat. Then you have lost all advantage of having your "quick access" gun in the first place. This has happened before and is most convincingly illustrated in the famous FBI Miami Shootout in the mid 1980's where two agents were killed and 5 wounded in a shootout. One of the FBI agents lost his gun when their car impacted with the bad guy's car because he had his gun on the seat next to him. He lost his gun for the entire duration of the shootout while his fellow agents were getting blasted and killed and he ended up not firing any shots at all. He might as well not even have been there.

    So, it is always recommended that if you have a "car gun" you maintain a method of securing it somehow in the vehicle. A lot of people have mounted holsters to their dash board in some permanent fashion. Others have used after market car mounts for holsters either strapped underneath the steering column or strapped to some location on the drivers seat. Other holsters mount onto your seat belt strap. Other folks leave a gun in the door pocket of their car or merely inside the center console that has a flip up lid to secure their gun.

    You'll have to decide which works best for you and if you even want to bother with having a second gun for "quick access" in your vehicle.

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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  14. #13
    Member Array Shackleton's Avatar
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    Personally I take my gun out of the holster once inside my vehicle and put it in between the center console and the seat (I velcro'd a cheap holster there) so that when I am driving ('95 Explorer) my gun hand (drive lefty, shoot righty) is literally half an inch from my gun. I put it back on me on exiting, or if going into the post office, lock it in the glove compartment.
    Semper Paratus

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  15. #14
    Member Array Alpine's Avatar
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    I put mine in a plastic holster next to the stick. It wedges in pretty well, but I like the Gum Creek example above enough to order one. Thanks for the link.

    I don't know how you guys draw from 3-4 while seated. Maybe I slouch too much, but it would be almost impossible to do with any kind of speed for me.

    Oh, and I never park and sit with the windows down. The second I heard warning bells I would have had something in hand, even if it was just a makeshift sap.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Windows up or down?? Should be up...

    Was the car running or off?? As you saw him coming, the car should be running...ready to put in gear and pull away....even if it's to move to a different spot. With your wife in the store, you really don't want to be gone for long or go too far. Hopefully both of you have cell phones to communicate and tell her what was going on.

    IRT carrying: yeah, carrying at 4:00 stinks when sitting for a while. If you know/think you're going to sit for a while, consider the following:

    1 - Ankle holster. If anything, maybe have an ankle holster in the car just for this kind of event (or driving long distances).

    2 - Move the gun to a holster between seat & console, near the seatbelt.

    IMO, the asking for money part was part of the "interview"--will you let this person in your comfort zone?? In situations similar to this, it's ok to ask/tell/command someone "Can I help you? Please stay back"....if they don't change direction or stop....your turn to act including moving the vehicle (the largest weapon at your disposal).
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

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