Which Holsters Auto-engage the thumb safety?

This is a discussion on Which Holsters Auto-engage the thumb safety? within the Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; One should be able to easily and safely re holster... but there really is no situation where one would be required to do any sort ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 42

Thread: Which Holsters Auto-engage the thumb safety?

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    somewhere
    Posts
    1,726
    One should be able to easily and safely re holster... but there really is no situation where one would be required to do any sort of "tactical reholster" or hurry with the reholster... unless you hunt people for a living and need to transition back and forth from all out running to drawing and vice versa (US Marshall?).

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #17
    Member Array roalho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    241
    Quote Originally Posted by lordhamster View Post
    If you were at the range, and someone pointed a fully loaded unholstered pistol at your leg (their finger is off the trigger) would you be upset? I bet if someone did that to you, you'd be on here posting your tale of woe on this forum. So, why then would I want to point a loaded and unholstered pistol at my own leg?

    Unless I'm in some sort of a rush to re-holster, there is no downside to re-hostering off body... only upsides.


    The Comp-tac infidel below is the one I use, except I use the clip with it. When I need to put my pistol into the safe at the end of the day... the whole rig comes out of my pants quickly and easily and goes in the safe. When I strap it on, same thing quick and easy all without the pistol ever leaving the holster. If I've been to the range or need to clean my pistol and it is out of it's holster, then why would first put on the holster and THEN insert the gun when I could simply insert the gun off-body while pointed in a safe direction?

    My Gun leaves my holster tops once or twice per week, is it really so terribly slow and inconvenient to add 3 seconds to the routine by first removing the empty holster from my belt before re-holstering?

    But if you were doing drills and such, of course you'd be re-holstering on-body. I'm with ya now. I wasn't thinking about it from a daily carry, weekly dust-off kinda thing.

  4. #18
    GM
    GM is offline
    VIP Member Array GM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    6,866
    Quote Originally Posted by lordhamster View Post
    I currently EDC a Glock 30sf, but I've been drooling over other pistols as well including M&P45c and Kimber Ultra Carry IIs. The other day I was perusing holster reviews on youtube and came across something really neat.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFmF9Oc2qWw

    It seems the Raven Concealment Systems Phantom holster is designed such that it will "Auto Engage" the thumb safety on an M&P45c upon re-holstering. I don't know about you, but I think that is a fantastic feature. I love the idea of a 1911 style easy to flick down thumb safety but would always worry about the safety being flicked off by accident. For the safety to not only be enabled automatically, but to be held on by the holster seems like an attractive option.

    Anyone know of any other holsters designed to do this?
    “.. it will "Auto Engage" the thumb safety on an M&P45c upon re-holstering.” ; IMO that is a very bad idea


    “I love the idea of a 1911 style easy to flick down thumb safety but would always worry about the safety being flicked off by accident.” ; like QKShooter said, it is a solution to a problem that does not (or should not) exist. Perhaps you should not consider getting a 1911; just continue carrying the Glock.
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

  5. #19
    Member Array lordhamster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    381
    Quote Originally Posted by GM View Post
    “.. it will "Auto Engage" the thumb safety on an M&P45c upon re-holstering.” ; IMO that is a very bad idea
    As a current non-1911 guy, I don't understand what possible objection you would have to the holster having such a "feature" that either locks the safety in place while holstered, or re-engages it if it isn't. Please help me out here, I'm a noob to thumb safeties. What specifically makes this a bad idea?

    I know that all 1911 carriers are infallible, but why would anyone object to such a function on the holster? Worst case it has no effect on you whatsoever... best case it corrects an oversight.

    The only objection I could fathom would be to an M&P owner who bought a gun with thumb safeties, but doesn't want to keep the safety engaged, in which case he probably got the wrong model pistol IMO.

  6. #20
    Member Array luke213's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Channing, Michigan
    Posts
    426
    Well I'm a 1911 carrier and I'm far from infallible but I'll accept that as a compliment;)

    It's really just a matter that the 1911 while a great gun requires a little more respect in my opinion. It requires more manipulation and has a much lighter trigger, and those two things make it a gun that might not be for everyone. Compared to a Glock or most common guns today where you just point and pull the trigger without any additional actions. I guess my point of this is that it's a gun that I believe to be one of the best designs made, honestly they are by far my favorite carry gun. That doesn't mean that they don't require a little additional training and paying attention while using them. The idea of a holster putting the gun on safe is bad because it takes that out of the users hand, if you carry a 1911 you shouldn't forget to put the safety on before holstering, it's a fairly important part of using that model of gun. It shouldn't be something to be casually forgotten and have the holster pick up the slack. I would say it's important but it should also be fairly automatic if that's the gun you carry, automatic like keeping your finger off the trigger until your ready to fire, or pointing the muzzle in a safe direction. It might not be natural but it's the proper way to handle a 1911, or other similar design.

    Again not being argumentative but it's just my opinion that it's an important safety rule and especially with firearms there is a certain amount of care and concern that should be handled by the person. I will give a quick example though, lets say a person new to firearms picks up a Kimber, first gun they've ever owned. They get this new Raven holster and look at that it re-engages the safety on holster. Neat, that will save me time while I'm test drawing in front of the mirror and it will be even cooler than just making certain that it's done each and every time. Also could be someone who is a casual firearms owner who get's lazy about engaging the safety and lets the holster do it. Either way I think they are bad habits and shouldn't be encouraged. But that's just my 2 cents. I'm also not saying you belong in either group, to be honest it seems like your more than safety conscious(especially holstering off body) and really I think based on that you have the sense to run a 1911 and enjoy them:) Have at it;) But we have to accept that allot of people read this thread without posting and I want to at least point out that the best idea is to properly handle the gun and engage the safety fully by yourself.


    Take care!

    Luke

    EDIT: It kinda sounds like I'm saying other guns are "easy" to shoot or something along those lines, I'm not saying that nor would I even imply that. They are however different and require less/more actions to fire, doesn't make one better than the other. Nor does the fact that I have to do more things to ready my gun to fire make me any more "elite" than someone who pulls the gun and fires. They are tools and as such serve a role, heck I have guns that aren't 1911's, love them all just love my 1911's a little more;)
    I am the owner/proprietor of www.adamsholsters.com Custom holsters made for you. To contact me please use E-mail rather than Private Messages, luke@adamsholsters.com

  7. #21
    Member Array lordhamster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    381
    Excellent response Luke. There is no question, nobody should ever rely on a holster or any other device to make sure their firearm is set to safe. I also agree that a complacent person may develop bad habits if they rely on this "feature." Perhaps thats why Raven doesn't advertise this as such.

    However, I would never turn down another failsafe for fear of complacency, by that argument one could say no striker fired weapon should ever be made with a thumb safety because people might come to "rely" on that feature. Personally the safety feature I admire most about the 1911 design is the backstrap safety. Its the kind of thing you never really need to think about, but I'm glad it is there. You correctly pointed out that I'm very very safety conscious. I take all the rules extremely seriously, especially #2, and I'm a firm believer that one should follow the manual of arms for whichever pistol one chooses to carry.

    That being said, I AM falible: I have left the stove on, I have left my door unlocked, forgotten my cellphone etc. If I have the option have a holster that could save me from a bonehead mistake I may only make once in 20,000 holsterings... I'd still prefer it. Ideally the holster would deliver a strong electric shock to me after it engages the safety to remind me not to do something so stupid again.

  8. #22
    Member Array Seraph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Secret City
    Posts
    357
    I don't think anyone's suggesting that you should just let the holster safe your pistol for you. Anybody entertaining such a notion has no business carrying a 1911, a Glock, or any other pistol. With a Kydex sweat shield, which doesn't have the same flexibility as leather, you have to have a definite gate for the entry and exit of the thumb safety, that terminates in a pocket shaped to capture the thumb safety in the safe position. Once you're there, you've almost got a ramp that will snick the safety on automatically, upon holstering the pistol. I don't see any downside to going ahead and molding this area to snick on a neglected thumb safety, if no other reason than to save others from dodging the ND of the knucklehead who forgot to safe his 1911.
    Under the sword lifted high, there is Hell, making you tremble. But go ahead, and you have the land of Bliss.

    ~ Miyamoto Musashi

  9. #23
    Member Array luke213's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Channing, Michigan
    Posts
    426
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraph View Post
    Once you're there, you've almost got a ramp that will snick the safety on automatically, upon holstering the pistol. I don't see any downside to going ahead and molding this area to snick on a neglected thumb safety
    Keep in mind I haven't seen/handled a rig that will do this in person so this is all just theory;)

    Do you ever find that same area undoing the safety? I'm not suggesting anyone would make a holster that would unsafety the gun on draw but that's one concern of mine with kydex in that area. Seems to me that the safety requires about the same amount of force either direction in travel, if there were a ledge of sort of the holster guiding it onto safe that it could guide it off safe upon drawing. I'm probably wrong here, I really hate to ask but curiosity killed the cat they say;) And without a holster of that design handy to fiddle with I gotta ask someone who has fiddled with one.

    Take care!

    Luke
    I am the owner/proprietor of www.adamsholsters.com Custom holsters made for you. To contact me please use E-mail rather than Private Messages, luke@adamsholsters.com

  10. #24
    Administrator
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Off Of The X
    Posts
    35,153

    I understand your point but,

    I am simultaneously thinking that you really don't fully understand the 1911.

    What exactly do you think would happen if you inadvertently neglected to snick on the thumb safety and holstered your 1911 with the thumb safety off...that one time in 20,000?

    The answer would be "Absolutely nothing would happen."

    Firstly you stated that you follow all of the gun safety rules and so if you unholstered your firearm and the thumb safety was accidentally left OFF - your finger would naturally be out of the trigger guard and off the trigger.

    Then you would simply use your thumb and put the safety on....or if you found yourself in a dire actual self-defense scenario your thumb would automatically move to snick the thumb safety off as part of your practiced draw and presentation and it would already be off.
    So...again, no problem.

    My suggestion is to get intimately familiar enough with your carry firearm to always highly respect it but, not to fear it

    Actually the only real way that you could have a 1911 negligent discharge when reholstering would be if the thumb safety was in the OFF position and the grip safety was depressed and you reholstered WITH your finger inside the trigger guard and on the trigger.

    The top edge of the holster would then place pressure on your finger which would then press the trigger and the pistol would fire.

    BUT, that would happen WELL BEFORE the pistol was inserted far enough into the holster for the holster "safety feature" to engage or contact the thumb safety.

    So the "special" holster would do nothing to prevent that negligent discharge from happening.

    The function of the thumb safety is to move up and physically prevent the sear from moving but, the 1911 sear cannot disengage all by itself inside a holster.

    Quote Originally Posted by lordhamster View Post
    Excellent response Luke. There is no question, nobody should ever rely on a holster or any other device to make sure their firearm is set to safe. I also agree that a complacent person may develop bad habits if they rely on this "feature." Perhaps thats why Raven doesn't advertise this as such.

    However, I would never turn down another failsafe for fear of complacency, by that argument one could say no striker fired weapon should ever be made with a thumb safety because people might come to "rely" on that feature. Personally the safety feature I admire most about the 1911 design is the backstrap safety. Its the kind of thing you never really need to think about, but I'm glad it is there. You correctly pointed out that I'm very very safety conscious. I take all the rules extremely seriously, especially #2, and I'm a firm believer that one should follow the manual of arms for whichever pistol one chooses to carry.

    That being said, I AM falible: I have left the stove on, I have left my door unlocked, forgotten my cellphone etc. If I have the option have a holster that could save me from a bonehead mistake I may only make once in 20,000 holsterings... I'd still prefer it. Ideally the holster would deliver a strong electric shock to me after it engages the safety to remind me not to do something so stupid again.

  11. #25
    GM
    GM is offline
    VIP Member Array GM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    6,866
    Quote Originally Posted by lordhamster View Post
    Excellent response Luke. There is no question, nobody should ever rely on a holster or any other device to make sure their firearm is set to safe. I also agree that a complacent person may develop bad habits if they rely on this "feature." Perhaps thats why Raven doesn't advertise this as such.

    However, I would never turn down another failsafe for fear of complacency, by that argument one could say no striker fired weapon should ever be made with a thumb safety because people might come to "rely" on that feature. Personally the safety feature I admire most about the 1911 design is the backstrap safety. Its the kind of thing you never really need to think about, but I'm glad it is there. You correctly pointed out that I'm very very safety conscious. I take all the rules extremely seriously, especially #2, and I'm a firm believer that one should follow the manual of arms for whichever pistol one chooses to carry.

    That being said, I AM falible: I have left the stove on, I have left my door unlocked, forgotten my cellphone etc. If I have the option have a holster that could save me from a bonehead mistake I may only make once in 20,000 holsterings... I'd still prefer it. Ideally the holster would deliver a strong electric shock to me after it engages the safety to remind me not to do something so stupid again.
    Then get one and be happy .

    Perhaps you should do a little more research before getting a 1911; it should be a shame if you spend a lot of money buying a Kimber and then you do not carry it because it makes you feel uncomfortable.
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

  12. #26
    Member Array Seraph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Secret City
    Posts
    357
    Quote Originally Posted by luke213 View Post
    Keep in mind I haven't seen/handled a rig that will do this in person so this is all just theory;)

    Do you ever find that same area undoing the safety? I'm not suggesting anyone would make a holster that would unsafety the gun on draw but that's one concern of mine with kydex in that area. Seems to me that the safety requires about the same amount of force either direction in travel, if there were a ledge of sort of the holster guiding it onto safe that it could guide it off safe upon drawing. I'm probably wrong here, I really hate to ask but curiosity killed the cat they say;) And without a holster of that design handy to fiddle with I gotta ask someone who has fiddled with one.

    Take care!

    Luke
    Well, the way I do them, I mold an open track that allows the safety to go into the holster unimpeded. It consequently also stays out of the way, as the safety comes back out. Near the forward end of this track, there is a ramp shape on the bottom side of the safety lever, whose primary purpose is to capture the safety lever in the safe position, but which, with a somewhat rigid material like Kydex, will also ramp the safety lever upward, if it happens not to be there already, due to user negligence. There's no way on my holster for the sweat guard to switch the safety off. I've never had a Raven in my hands to look at, but I imagine that theirs probably works the same way, if only due to the behavior of Kydex.
    Under the sword lifted high, there is Hell, making you tremble. But go ahead, and you have the land of Bliss.

    ~ Miyamoto Musashi

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    26,158
    Quote Originally Posted by lordhamster View Post
    Which Holsters Auto-engage the thumb safety? I don't know about you, but I think that is a fantastic feature.
    Problem is, holster material can move over time. Particularly if it's leather, in which case it's guaranteed to do exactly that. Personally, I would not want to rely upon such a henky alternative to positive manual engagement or disengagement of a safety during the normal course of drawing or making "safe." I can't imagine any holster-based automatic flicking of a firearm's safety to be a good thing, to be relied upon.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  14. #28
    Administrator
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Off Of The X
    Posts
    35,153
    OK - Now it is time for some QKShooter "Taboo Talk"

    Actually the safest holster for a 1911 - in order to prevent an inadvertent re-holstering "negligent discharge" would be a holster that had NO leather or Kydex covering or in the area of the 1911 trigger or trigger guard.

    OMG! What did he just say?!? !!

    A reholstering 1911 "ND" can only happen when the thumb safety is left off - the index finger is "whoops!" in the trigger guard & the firearm is pushed into the holster.

    That usually (though RARELY) happens when a shooter practicing for competition attempts to move faster than their skill level.

    If there is No leather or Kydex material in the trigger guard area then (logically) there would be nothing to put any pressure on that bad bad naughty finger during reholstering.

    AND if the 1911 is holstered WITH the thumb safety on & with the Grip Safety ALWAYS automatically engaged there is no twig or tree branch or fence rail that is going to get inside that trigger guard and move that trigger. The trigger bow would actually bend or break before the grip safety would allow the trigger to move to the rear.
    And even if it did the thumb safety would be blocking the sear.

    SO...a good, logical, argument could be made that the safest 1911 holster actually DOES NOT cover the trigger guard.

  15. #29
    Member Array Seraph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Secret City
    Posts
    357
    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Problem is, holster material can move over time. Particularly if it's leather, in which case it's guaranteed to do exactly that. Personally, I would not want to rely upon such a henky alternative to positive manual engagement or disengagement of a safety during the normal course of drawing or making "safe." I can't imagine any holster-based automatic flicking of a firearm's safety to be a good thing, to be relied upon.
    No one's espousing the reliance on a holster's sweat guard to engage a pistol's thumb safety, so we're all in agreement on that. Some are imagining that a Kydex sweat guard, that will move a pistol's safety lever to the safe position, might somehow be more dangerous, compared to a sweat guard that doesn't. I'm trying to explain that the same contour that makes a Kydex sweat guard retain a properly engaged thumb safety in its safe position, will tend to move a neglected lever up, at least part of the way, as a mere consequence of its retentive shaping, so one may as well make it capable of moving the safety lever all the way up.
    Under the sword lifted high, there is Hell, making you tremble. But go ahead, and you have the land of Bliss.

    ~ Miyamoto Musashi

  16. #30
    Member Array lordhamster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    381
    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    I am simultaneously thinking that you really don't fully understand the 1911.

    What exactly do you think would happen if you inadvertently neglected to snick on the thumb safety and holstered your 1911 with the thumb safety off...that one time in 20,000?

    The answer would be "Absolutely nothing would happen."

    Firstly you stated that you follow all of the gun safety rules and so if you unholstered your firearm and the thumb safety was accidentally left OFF - your finger would naturally be out of the trigger guard and off the trigger.

    Then you would simply use your thumb and put the safety on....or if you found yourself in a dire actual self-defense scenario your thumb would automatically move to snick the thumb safety off as part of your practiced draw and presentation and it would already be off.
    So...again, no problem.

    My suggestion is to get intimately familiar enough with your carry firearm to always highly respect it but, not to fear it

    Actually the only real way that you could have a 1911 negligent discharge when reholstering would be if the thumb safety was in the OFF position and the grip safety was depressed and you reholstered WITH your finger inside the trigger guard and on the trigger.

    The top edge of the holster would then place pressure on your finger which would then press the trigger and the pistol would fire.

    BUT, that would happen WELL BEFORE the pistol was inserted far enough into the holster for the holster "safety feature" to engage or contact the thumb safety.

    So the "special" holster would do nothing to prevent that negligent discharge from happening.

    The function of the thumb safety is to move up and physically prevent the sear from moving but, the 1911 sear cannot disengage all by itself inside a holster.
    By your logic then, they may as well remove the thumb safety and perhaps even the back-strap safety since a competent elite 1911 shooter would never have anything catch the trigger during a re-holster.

    I understand your saying such a feature may be unnecessary... what I'm not understanding is the vehement hatred for the mere suggestion that such a thing may be nice to have. Futher, to imply that somehow I'm "afraid" of my firearm because I'm concerned for safety issues is a bit silly IMO. We should all have a healthy respect (you may call it fear if you wish) of our firearms.

    Really, there is no need to be so defensive... I'm not trying to insult the beloved 1911, I actually find it a much more "idiot proof" platform than the Glock. With your permission, I'd love to purchase one someday. :)

    Furthermore, for you to suggest that the best holster for a 1911 is one that doesn't cover the trigger makes me think perhaps I'm not the one who needs a refresher course on how a 1911 works.

    Thus far I've seen two valid objections.
    Luke mentions complacency
    ccw9mm mentions possible material fatigue leading to a safety being flicked off.

    QKShooter, all I've seen from you are statements amounting to "I'm a perfect shooter on a perfect platform using perfect equipment...therefore a holster that would correct an oversight is evil." If all you tell me is correct, then a holster like the Raven Concealment holster I described should not bother you in the least, because in your infinite perfection, it's feature of auto engaging the safety would NEVER be used. So why the outright hatred of the idea?

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 7
    Last Post: March 25th, 2008, 11:11 AM
  2. XD Thumb Safety
    By fotomaker57 in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: February 22nd, 2008, 08:23 AM
  3. Compact 9mm With Thumb Safety
    By Ron in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: September 30th, 2007, 04:56 PM
  4. My 1911 thumb safety
    By Dakotaranger in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: September 19th, 2007, 12:07 PM
  5. My 1911 thumb safety
    By Dakotaranger in forum Reference & "How To" Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: September 19th, 2007, 12:07 PM

Search tags for this page

1911 holster molded thumb safety

,
1911 holster moves safety
,
1911 kydex holster thumb safety
,

fist holster

,
holster for m&p 40 with thumb safety
,

holster m&p45c

,
infidel m&p compact 9/40/357
,
m&p thumb safety holster
,
raven concealment knockoff
,

raven concealment thumb safety

,

safety holster

,
thumb safety holster
Click on a term to search for related topics.