Which Holsters Auto-engage the thumb safety?

[luke213]

Well guys I think I've said my piece;) I think most guys are at least on the same idea if not for some small variations. It's looking like this thread might go into more "hostile" territory and I'll take that as my cue to leave;)

Seraph - The way you explained how you made your rigs so it only goes one way makes sense. For the way it was being described as a channel I kept thinking a U shape which would of course trap the safety on both sides and tend to take it back off safety as well. On the other hand with the basically half U shape, lacking a better way to describe it makes sense.

QKShooter - I'm not sure your age nor past but you may or may not have read Blue Steel and Gunleather by John Bianchi which has it's faults but is a really interesting read and full of pictures of holsters and designs that have come and gone. Interesting to the topic of open trigger guards is the older speed scabbards with open triggers. Also rather amusing with the current sensibilities of keeping your fingers off the trigger, in those days(not too long ago even:) it seems they were doing exactly the opposite in most cases. Granted he made a point that guys were starting to lean towards keeping their fingers off the trigger until on target in later chapters but still neat.

He also made a few suggestions on where he felt holster design was heading and I found it rather amusing that he felt that holster would get progressively more slender with less material. On the other hand allot of rigs these days are just as large in allot of cases and even larger in order to distribute the weight of the gun. I guess though modern double stack guns have come to play a role in that to a certain degree along with clothing style etc(granted older steel revolvers weren't light weight).

Overall though it's a good read, and for those of us too young to have lived and carried with some of those designs it's an interesting look into where this whole thing has come from. I also don't disagree with your assessment of open trigger guard being technically more safe on a 1911, I will say though on some of the older double action revolvers I think it was rather dumb:) Single action to a degree made sense as you still had to manipulate another bit of the action to fire, but once double action revolvers came into play I feel the trigger guard should be covered;)

Take care!

Luke

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[OD*]

Actually the safest holster for a 1911 - in order to prevent an inadvertent re-holstering "negligent discharge" would be a holster that had NO leather or Kydex covering or in the area of the 1911 trigger or trigger guard.

OMG! What did he just say?!? !!

Yep, the "old" "Tom Threeperson's" is still one of my favorites.

[OD*]

By your logic then, they may as well remove the thumb safety and perhaps even the back-strap safety since a competent elite 1911 shooter would never have anything catch the trigger during a re-holster.

Many of the old "gunmen" did pin the grip safety (what you're referring to as the back-strap safety)

[QKShooter]

Actually the first 1911s did not have a thumb safety and the later Detonics DID but did not have a grip safety at all. Solid combination mainspring housings & backstrap were also popular at one time that completely eliminated the grip safety.
Many competition shooters years ago pinned the grip safety down.
Some actually removed the entire front of the trigger guard though I'm not suggesting that anybody do those things.

Actually you are really reading me the wrong way. I am not hating your holster idea at all...or your desire to buy a holster with that feature.
Though I do think that your desire for that particular holster is not making very much logical common sense and that usually is fear based or based on not having intimate knowledge of the internal workings of the 1911 in particular.

"Furthermore, for you to suggest that the best holster for a 1911 is one that doesn't cover the trigger makes me think perhaps I'm not the one who needs a refresher course on how a 1911 works."

Actually you cannot fault my logic on that and I have been shooting the 1911 since I was 14 years old and have been carrying one legally and almost daily for at least 20 years and have never had an ND with any firearm. I just do not blindly parrot everybody that says "Cover The Trigger Guard." "Cover The Trigger Guard." regardless of what firearm they are talking about.
I also worked electroplating the 1911 and probably have disassembled and reassembled 3 or 4 thousand of them and do all of the gun-smithing/customizing work on my own.

By your logic then, they may as well remove the thumb safety and perhaps even the back-strap safety since a competent elite 1911 shooter would never have anything catch the trigger during a re-holster.

I understand your saying such a feature may be unnecessary... what I'm not understanding is the vehement hatred for the mere suggestion that such a thing may be nice to have. Futher, to imply that somehow I'm "afraid" of my firearm because I'm concerned for safety issues is a bit silly IMO. We should all have a healthy respect (you may call it fear if you wish) of our firearms.

Really, there is no need to be so defensive... I'm not trying to insult the beloved 1911, I actually find it a much more "idiot proof" platform than the Glock. With your permission, I'd love to purchase one someday. :)

Furthermore, for you to suggest that the best holster for a 1911 is one that doesn't cover the trigger makes me think perhaps I'm not the one who needs a refresher course on how a 1911 works.

Thus far I've seen two valid objections.
Luke mentions complacency
ccw9mm mentions possible material fatigue leading to a safety being flicked off.

QKShooter, all I've seen from you are statements amounting to "I'm a perfect shooter on a perfect platform using perfect equipment...therefore a holster that would correct an oversight is evil." If all you tell me is correct, then a holster like the Raven Concealment holster I described should not bother you in the least, because in your infinite perfection, it's feature of auto engaging the safety would NEVER be used. So why the outright hatred of the idea?

[lordhamster]

Qkshooter. If there ever was a pistol I would feel safe to carry with an uncovered trigger guard, the 1911 would be it. I really consider the platform to be the safest (safer from user error) out there.

That being said, I think the rule of thumb about trigger guards being covered does more good than harm.

[QKShooter]

Please know that it is difficult to type a post in a forum thread and to be certain in advance how it is going to be interpreted by other readers.
For myself I need to be brief because I am also reviewing other forum posts on & off so I come across oftentimes as being abrupt.

Actually the most common type of Glock negligent discharge in competition & with folks practicing for getting into competitive shooting happens when re-holstering with the trigger finger still in the guard. With a Glock though an uncovered trigger guard is not such a hot idea due to the format of that firearm.

OD - Tom Threepersons...A walk down memory lane.

Just FYI - My second early comp rig was an Ernie Hill Speed Scabbard that was custom built for a full size 1911 so as not to cover the guard or the trigger.
I had one other for a Long Slide.
I think there were only 5 total of them made that way.

[lordhamster]

Did a quick google search and found one.. that Ernie Hills is a neat looking rig!

Please know that it is difficult to type a post in a forum thread and to be certain in advance how it is going to be interpreted by other readers.
For myself I need to be brief because I am also reviewing other forum posts on & off so I come across oftentimes as being abrupt.

Actually the most common type of Glock negligent discharge in competition & with folks practicing for getting into competitive shooting happens when re-holstering with the trigger finger still in the guard. With a Glock though an uncovered trigger guard is not such a hot idea due to the format of that firearm.

OD - Tom Threepersons...A walk down memory lane.

Just FYI - My second early comp rig was an Ernie Hill Speed Scabbard that was custom built for a full size 1911 so as not to cover the guard or the trigger.
I had one other for a Long Slide.
I think there were only 5 total of them made that way.

[roalho]

~snip~
My Gun leaves my holster tops once or twice per week, is it really so terribly slow and inconvenient to add 3 seconds to the routine by first removing the empty holster from my belt before re-holstering?

I guess the flip-side to this question would be that since my gun is in and out of the holster dozens, if not hundreds of time per week (drilling drilling drilling) am I really buying myself that much more added safety by reholstering "that one last time" off body?

At any rate, we were trained to try to do "stuff" the same way each and every time, whether practicing hot, cold or otherwise, including re-holstering *slowly and carefully*. This is in order to train the sub-conscious and build muscle memory.

As far as the topic of the OP goes, I'd prefer my holster "not" perform any manipulations of any of the firearms controls. That should be up to the operator, period.
OMOYMMV

[Xader]

Yeah, I've only ever heard of it happening w/ the Ambi-safeties on some pistols. I love the 1911 because it really seems to be the best of all worlds. You have two redundant external safeties, plus a great smooth and light trigger. Love em. Next step would be to convince the wife to let me buy one. :)

Yup.

The only time the thumb safety ever gets disengaged in the holster is when something hits the ambi. I always think about putting a standard one on, but I just never get around to it...

Doesn't matter though. There is no way for a properly holstered firearm to spontaneously discharge.

[swinokur]

I want the safety control to be with my brain and finger. My Kimber's manual safety was never kicked off in a Fist holster, nor would I want a holster that did that.
I may want to remove the firearm and have the safety remain in place.
Drawing the firearm and removing the manual safety when there is an 'instant' need is easily accomplished without thinking about it...muscle memory takes over in those situations.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

this. I do not want a piece of gear doing what my brain should be doing. Muscle memory drills should be frequent, not the gear doing it. The MOA does not provide exceptions for equipment. It's for the operator to do.

My ,02

[Seraph]

Here's an M&P 9, with it's thumb safety about 1/3 of the way into the holster. By this point, the barrel and slide are well into the holster, so there's very little deviation possible for the thumb safety's straight-in entry to the holster. Nonetheless, there's plenty of room, at this point, above and below the thumb safety.


Here, the thumb safety is about 2/3 of the way into the holster. At this point, the bottom of the thumb safety is in contact with Kydex, so that the thumb safety is fairly captured in the safe position. Note that there's still plenty of room above the thumb safety.


With the pistol fully seated in the holster, the thumb safety is effectively captured in its molded pocket, so that it resists being accidentally swept off. If you look at these pics in reverse order, you can see that the holster can't push the safety off upon the draw. There is extra room in the track, so that holster doesn't contact the top side of the safety.

[loboleather]

I receive inquiries regularly for such a feature, usually on holsters for 1911-style pistols.

While it might appear to be a straightforward exercise to do this, I would point out that there are a dozen manufacturers making 1911-style pistols, and a dozen or more custom makers. The thumb safeties on today's pistols vary widely in size, shape, and profile, and a holster fitted for one style may or may not work with another. It is likely that you will have to make your pistol available to the holster maker to assure a proper fit and function.

Add in the huge variety of aftermarket parts and the situation only becomes more complicated.

A holster maker who tried to market such a holster might be taking on a huge liability risk.