Which Holsters Auto-engage the thumb safety?

This is a discussion on Which Holsters Auto-engage the thumb safety? within the Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I currently EDC a Glock 30sf, but I've been drooling over other pistols as well including M&P45c and Kimber Ultra Carry IIs. The other day ...

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Thread: Which Holsters Auto-engage the thumb safety?

  1. #1
    Member Array lordhamster's Avatar
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    Which Holsters Auto-engage the thumb safety?

    I currently EDC a Glock 30sf, but I've been drooling over other pistols as well including M&P45c and Kimber Ultra Carry IIs. The other day I was perusing holster reviews on youtube and came across something really neat.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFmF9Oc2qWw

    It seems the Raven Concealment Systems Phantom holster is designed such that it will "Auto Engage" the thumb safety on an M&P45c upon re-holstering. I don't know about you, but I think that is a fantastic feature. I love the idea of a 1911 style easy to flick down thumb safety but would always worry about the safety being flicked off by accident. For the safety to not only be enabled automatically, but to be held on by the holster seems like an attractive option.

    Anyone know of any other holsters designed to do this?

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  3. #2
    Member Array luke213's Avatar
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    Most rigs with a sweatshield are molded with the safety on for 1911 rigs, which will provide a bit of a spot for the safety to ride in. It isn't going to engage the safety on it's own but I don't think that's a good idea myself(I'll cover that later). It will however keep the safety in place to a certain degree, but it's really going to depend on how strong the spring is holding the little nub in the groove on the safety. I've seen some 1911 that brush off far too easy, I've seen others that I think under stress you would have a hard time disengaging. I run a stock government safety lever on my 1911, not ambi, not extended, I also just did a fresh set of springs and mine disengages cleanly without allot of force but I'm comfortable that it's secure but will not give me trouble in a pinch. I haven't actually had my 1911 safety ever disengage while in my holster, I guess it depends on the design but in my opinion it's not a problem in a good holster. I can't speak for the M&P safeties since I haven't actually handled them in person to see how they engage.

    As far as engaging the safety upon reholster? I'm not a fan, I like having a traditional safety for allot of reasons but one of the other benefits is that my gun is "safer" while reholstering. I'm not saying a Glock isn't safe reholstering but if something enters the trigger guard or someone forgets to remove their finger from the trigger and tries to reholster. It's happened. Now with a traditional safety that is engaged prior to reholster, if something enters the trigger guard and hits the trigger the safety stops the action. That also doesn't say anything to the fact that it may or may not be reliable over the life of the holster. I'm for using my fingers and thumbs to manipulate the firearm rather than letting the holster do the work, maybe I'm wrong but that's just my 2 cents.

    Also didn't watch the video but here's my quick theory if the safety is rather pronounced on the M&P and easy to swipe I can see the kydex being tough enough to guide the safety back into position when the gun is in the holster. I don't believe I've ever heard of anyone including Raven themselves saying this is a feature rather than a byproduct of a more solid material than leather and tight molding.

    That's just my opinion though, and it's not to say it's not a novel thought but I believe it's an accidental feature at best and I prefer to insure that the gun is safe prior to reholstering. I will say though the M&P line is no less safe than a Glock or an XD without the safety engaged so the risk is much lower than say a 1911 that's cocked and unlocked. I still prefer to use the equipment on the gun the way it was designed.

    Take care!

    Luke
    I am the owner/proprietor of www.adamsholsters.com Custom holsters made for you. To contact me please use E-mail rather than Private Messages, luke@adamsholsters.com

  4. #3
    Member Array lordhamster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke213 View Post
    Also didn't watch the video but here's my quick theory if the safety is rather pronounced on the M&P and easy to swipe I can see the kydex being tough enough to guide the safety back into position when the gun is in the holster. I don't believe I've ever heard of anyone including Raven themselves saying this is a feature rather than a byproduct of a more solid material than leather and tight molding.

    That's just my opinion though, and it's not to say it's not a novel thought but I believe it's an accidental feature at best and I prefer to insure that the gun is safe prior to reholstering. I will say though the M&P line is no less safe than a Glock or an XD without the safety engaged so the risk is much lower than say a 1911 that's cocked and unlocked. I still prefer to use the equipment on the gun the way it was designed.

    Take care!

    Luke
    Sure, if I have a safety of course I'd do my best to ensure its ON before I re-holster. But I like the idea of having the safety flick on just in case I forgot. Call me crazy.

    I don't know if raven designed it this way or if its a side-effect, but I think it is neat. Take that with a grain of salt though since I've never carried a weapon with any kind of external safeties. The reason I like the idea of the 1911 style thumb safety on the M&P line is that it is a) very intuitive for the way I draw to flick it off, and b) it would make me feel just a little bit better about re-holstering on-body.

    Currently with my Glock, I try to re-holster off-body if at all possible. When I re-holster on-body I'm very very very very careful that nothing gets into the trigger guard like my shirt, drawstring, finger etc... but I'm human and can make mistakes so an additional failsafe is attractive for me.

  5. #4
    Member Array Seraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordhamster View Post
    I currently EDC a Glock 30sf, but I've been drooling over other pistols as well including M&P45c and Kimber Ultra Carry IIs. The other day I was perusing holster reviews on youtube and came across something really neat.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFmF9Oc2qWw

    It seems the Raven Concealment Systems Phantom holster is designed such that it will "Auto Engage" the thumb safety on an M&P45c upon re-holstering. I don't know about you, but I think that is a fantastic feature. I love the idea of a 1911 style easy to flick down thumb safety but would always worry about the safety being flicked off by accident. For the safety to not only be enabled automatically, but to be held on by the holster seems like an attractive option.

    Anyone know of any other holsters designed to do this?
    Well, I had no idea that Raven was doing it, and I suppose that I'll eventually be accused of being a "knockoff," but I've been making some Kydex holsters recently, and the M&P version will, in fact, engage the thumb safety, on an M&P 9/.40/.357 FS so equipped. It came about as a result of molding the sweat guard to keep a thumb safety trapped in the safe position. I saw that, with a slight tweak, I'd be able to make them engage the safety, so that's how I'm doing all of them now. I, of course, would never espouse using your holster to engage the safety, as it is much wiser and safer to safe the pistol BEFORE holstering, but once I saw that it was possible, I couldn't think of a reason not to do it. If the user has a brain fart, and fails to safe the pistol, the holster will do it automatically.
    Under the sword lifted high, there is Hell, making you tremble. But go ahead, and you have the land of Bliss.

    ~ Miyamoto Musashi

  6. #5
    Member Array luke213's Avatar
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    Well that's actually a tough thing with guns with a different manual of arms. I'm a 1911 guy at my core and that's how I actually just function I would have to train myself not to try and flick off the safety. It seems though if the grips of the guns are fairly different it's less of a problem. For instance I never try to disengage a safety on my Kel-Tec PF9, nor P3AT, but I would guess it's because they are so different than my Government 1911 that it's a different thought process. On the other hand with my Taurus PT145 which is fairly close in size to my 1911 I can't seem to talk myself into running it without the safety. It's got a super long DAO trigger and is plenty safe without it, but when I holster with no safety, I draw and the hands still try and swipe off the safe. In the same thread I actually have a hard time reholstering without putting the gun back on safe. I actually found myself when I was trying to teach myself not to use the safety on the Taurus putting it on subconsciously while holstering.

    So I think it's just one of those things if you take the time to train with the right gun for carry you should be just fine. You may have more issue with two simliar sized guns than I do, I honestly don't have any Glocks etc without traditional safeties to test on, I will say on the range I've never tried to swipe a safety on a Glock.

    Either way, just my opinion hope I didn't come off as harsh as it wasn't my intent;)

    Take care!

    Luke
    I am the owner/proprietor of www.adamsholsters.com Custom holsters made for you. To contact me please use E-mail rather than Private Messages, luke@adamsholsters.com

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    Member Array roalho's Avatar
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    Reholstering off-body? This, I do not understand, unless the gun isn't actually being "carried". Do you literally remove the empty holster from yourself, re-holster the weapon, and then replace the holstered weapon back upon yourself?
    Brain....hurting.....does.....not....compute.....

    I MUST be missing something with that one.

  8. #7
    Member Array Seraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roalho View Post
    Reholstering off-body? This, I do not understand, unless the gun isn't actually being "carried". Do you literally remove the empty holster from yourself, re-holster the weapon, and then replace the holstered weapon back upon yourself?
    Brain....hurting.....does.....not....compute.....

    I MUST be missing something with that one.
    It's extremely safe.
    Under the sword lifted high, there is Hell, making you tremble. But go ahead, and you have the land of Bliss.

    ~ Miyamoto Musashi

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    I want the safety control to be with my brain and finger. My Kimber's manual safety was never kicked off in a Fist holster, nor would I want a holster that did that.
    I may want to remove the firearm and have the safety remain in place.
    Drawing the firearm and removing the manual safety when there is an 'instant' need is easily accomplished without thinking about it...muscle memory takes over in those situations.
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  10. #9
    Member Array lordhamster's Avatar
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    If you were at the range, and someone pointed a fully loaded unholstered pistol at your leg (their finger is off the trigger) would you be upset? I bet if someone did that to you, you'd be on here posting your tale of woe on this forum. So, why then would I want to point a loaded and unholstered pistol at my own leg?

    Unless I'm in some sort of a rush to re-holster, there is no downside to re-hostering off body... only upsides.


    The Comp-tac infidel below is the one I use, except I use the clip with it. When I need to put my pistol into the safe at the end of the day... the whole rig comes out of my pants quickly and easily and goes in the safe. When I strap it on, same thing quick and easy all without the pistol ever leaving the holster. If I've been to the range or need to clean my pistol and it is out of it's holster, then why would first put on the holster and THEN insert the gun when I could simply insert the gun off-body while pointed in a safe direction?

    My Gun leaves my holster tops once or twice per week, is it really so terribly slow and inconvenient to add 3 seconds to the routine by first removing the empty holster from my belt before re-holstering?



    Quote Originally Posted by roalho View Post
    Reholstering off-body? This, I do not understand, unless the gun isn't actually being "carried". Do you literally remove the empty holster from yourself, re-holster the weapon, and then replace the holstered weapon back upon yourself?
    Brain....hurting.....does.....not....compute.....

    I MUST be missing something with that one.

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    On the range, I might draw and reholster over 100 times, depending on my practice plan.
    Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lordhamster View Post
    Unless I'm in some sort of a rush to re-holster, there is no downside to re-hostering off body... only upsides.
    Have you ever taken any formal training courses (Front Site, Gunsite, Ayoob, Thunder Ranch, etc) where you draw, shoot, and re-holster? Not to rain on your safety parade, but I think safely re-holstering a loaded firearm is an essential part of training that's necessary for anyone who carries a holstered sidearm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Husker View Post
    On the range, I might draw and reholster over 100 times, depending on my practice plan.
    Husker, is that a private range? I'm not aware of any public ranges in the Phx area that allow working from the holster.
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  14. #13
    Member Array lordhamster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Have you ever taken any formal training courses (Front Site, Gunsite, Ayoob, Thunder Ranch, etc) where you draw, shoot, and re-holster? Not to rain on your safety parade, but I think safely re-holstering a loaded firearm is an essential part of training that's necessary for anyone who carries a holstered sidearm.
    Look, if I'm at some sort of a training event or IDPA match or something, then sure I'll re-holster on-body. I'm not afraid of doing so...

    I'm not taking about range sessions or practice time. I'm just saying when I'm at home in the comfort of my home I take a little extra time and use a few extra safety precautions. Is that really so terrible?

    I don't know what Front site, Ayoob etc preach, but I'd love to see an explanation of why a civilian CCW would be in any rush to re-holster. IMO reholstering should be done slowly, deliberately and with extreme care... no matter where you do it.

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    "I love the idea of a 1911 style easy to flick down thumb safety but would always worry about the safety being flicked off by accident."

    Just FYI ~ That is an extremely rare occurrence that never happens with the vast majority of 1911/Holster combinations and will only happen with a 1911 that has defective (but, easily correctable) thumb safety.

    So as far as being a useful holster feature to the 1911 - it is a solution to a problem that does not (or should not) exist.

    Also regarding a properly holstered 1911....the 1911 cannot discharge while holstered even with the thumb safety disengaged and in the off safe position.

    In all of my years of daily carrying the 1911 I have never had the thumb safety move to Off Safe by itself in any holster that I've ever owned.

  16. #15
    Member Array lordhamster's Avatar
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    Yeah, I've only ever heard of it happening w/ the Ambi-safeties on some pistols. I love the 1911 because it really seems to be the best of all worlds. You have two redundant external safeties, plus a great smooth and light trigger. Love em. Next step would be to convince the wife to let me buy one. :)

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