Raven Concealment... Good holsters, but customer service??

This is a discussion on Raven Concealment... Good holsters, but customer service?? within the Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I just placed my order with Raven Concealment Systems for a Phantom Holster. The following is copy and pasted from the E-mail transactions... From Raven.. ...

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Thread: Raven Concealment... Good holsters, but customer service??

  1. #1
    Member Array HavOkSIS's Avatar
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    Raven Concealment... Good holsters, but customer service??

    I just placed my order with Raven Concealment Systems for a Phantom Holster.

    The following is copy and pasted from the E-mail transactions...

    From Raven..
    Comments

    Thanks for your order. We’re about 12-13 weeks deep in orders at the moment. We will not charge your card until your order is in production. You will be notified via email when your order ships.

    If you have questions about your order, please see the FAQ listed at the bottom left of our home page. If the FAQ doesn\'t answer your question, please respond to this email, we\'ll be happy to help you.

    Kelly


    Me..
    Is there any way I could be notified before my card is charged? I would like to be sure the money is good since it is so far out.

    Thanks
    J.D. Hill

    here's where it gets dicey.

    Raven..
    JD,

    We do not have the resources or manpower to notify before a charge. It is the customers responsibility to ensure funds are available.

    If you'd prefer, we can charge the order now to avoid any future issues.

    Please let me know how you wish to proceed,

    (Name Omitted)
    Director of Sales

    is it just me or is this guy trying to be a **** *******
    so I reply..
    Well, 12 weeks is a fairly long time, and $85.00 is not cheap. I was just trying to ensure, as is my responsibility, that the funds will be available. Yes charge my card ASAP.

    J.D.

    Raven Concealment makes good stuff but i'm seriously thinking about dropping this order all together
    Last edited by HavOkSIS; December 28th, 2010 at 07:37 PM.
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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    They obviously have the manpower to know when your order is up and to charge your card at that time.....
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  4. #3
    Member Array HavOkSIS's Avatar
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    After the "we\'ll be happy to help you", I was thinking maybe, just maybe, they will decent to do business with. I don't think it was too much to ask, 12 weeks is a pretty good wait. Then I get this crap.
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  5. #4
    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
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    I don't know, I think that he wasn't the nicest guy in town in his second email. That said, I get it that he is likely working with a smaller crew in tough economic times and may have a tough time sending that email enough in advance to make it workable. I don't think he is being a jerk too badly and would suggest you keep your cool and be polite.
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  6. #5
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    I believe there are some legal restrictions on charging your card and not delivering in a "timely fashion". May also play with the charge back rights you have with your card. Are you running your charge card that close to the limit or is this a debit card and you are concerned with overdrawing the account? If a debit card, enter the $85 in your checkbook now so the cash is "off the table" now. Adjusting the date when the charge actually comes in is the way I've handled this in the past. If it's a credit card, that is a conversation you and Dave Ramsey should be having.

    Do I think they are trying to be MF or give you BS, no. Don't know how large an operation they are running but committing to play phone/email tag with you may not be worth the work. At this point, having given them permission to proceed with the charge, I'd ride it out.

  7. #6
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    Fist will charge your card immediatly, but then you will have your holster in about 4 weeks...give or take a few days.

    http://www.fist-inc.com/holsters/Default.htm
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  8. #7
    Distinguished Member Array Gideon's Avatar
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    Personally I think you need to relax. Most of these holster outfits are family run and often times it's one guy making them with the wife doing paper work. For every clean order they probably get changes or cancellations on 25%. And they're also likely to get hundreds of emails and calls just asking a lot of questions with no orders. So there's a real issue of time being burned up for non-productive issues. So to say they don't have the time to place that extra call isn't a stretch in my mind. In my opinion he's being up front. Authorize it now and it's done or do it their way. Sounds like you may be using a debit card. Granted, I wish everyone I dealt with was willing to do whatever I asked for but if you've been around awhile, you've undoubtedly heard of many holster makers having real business problems trying to keep up. So I think it's a fine line they're trying to keep with being helpful and convenient and falling even further behind and ticking off even more paying customers. We're not working with larger corporations with very refined processes but craftsman making a semi custom product. The better they are the greater the demand on a very finite resource and the longer the lead time.

    Not bashing you brother, just trying to see it from the point of view of a small guy in business who makes good holsters but may not always be the politest business man.

    If you know the quality is good and you're confident in what you're ordering, I'd say pay it and wait and at least you know it's paid for. Then I'd put a suspense on my phone for 14 weeks from now and forget about it.

    If you order from any of the better makers you're going to have the wait and the same deal with the card. And in all my dealings on holsters it's always been we'll bill when we build or when we ship but I always ask them to bill me now.

    Just somethings to consider.

    Gideon

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    If you think 12 weeks is a long wait you have a lot more to expirience.

    Personally I'm of the opinion that it is your responsibility to have the funds available. If it's a debit card, take the funds and set them aside now. If it's a credit card that is almost maxed out, get better control of your finances.

    My $0.02.

    Biker

  10. #9
    Member Array HavOkSIS's Avatar
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    Well thought about it and...

    This was just a case of him being blunt and to the point and me being a jackass.

    That being said Raven Concealment is by far the best holsters available today and Tom could have probably said whatever he wanted to, I would've ranted and stomped around a bit, but still its a Raven Concealment Phantom Modular Holster.

    I took it the wrong way, then went off the deep end. My apologies and can't wait to get this holster
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  11. #10
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    I don't know. I don't think it is unreasonable. Can't expect them to notify the user before a card charge and wait for their reply if they really are as backed up as they say they are. If you order it, though, shouldn't you have the funds available? $85 is a lot, but not an unreasonable amount of money to keep in an account. Besides, use a credit card when online shopping. You get more protections that way compared to a debit card.

  12. #11
    Member Array Unkind213's Avatar
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    Always use a credit card instead of debit. That way you don't have to worry about having "funds available"....well unless you're maxing it out, in which case you're going to have another set of problems.

  13. #12
    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    Raven..
    JD,
    We do not have the resources or manpower to notify before a charge. It is the customers responsibility to ensure funds are available.

    If you'd prefer, we can charge the order now to avoid any future issues.

    Please let me know how you wish to proceed,
    I agree with the sales person. It is not his responsibility to make sure that you have the money.

    Plus he even said that he will charge you now for the service.

    IMO, the place not charging you until it is made it a doing a favor for the customers.
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  14. #13
    Member Array NIS350ZTT's Avatar
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    I'm surprised that they don't charge you as soon as you order. What if they make the holster and then you back out before paying? Then they're left with very specific inventory item that they might only sell one out of every two years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knightrider
    IMO, the place not charging you until it is made it a doing a favor for the customers.
    I agree.

  15. #14
    Member Array giaodn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NIS350ZTT View Post
    I'm surprised that they don't charge you as soon as you order.
    The credit card companies frown on taking payment without starting work. For finished goods, the merchant can charge the credit account when the good is shipped. For manufactured goods, a charge can be made when the work has started. If the order is just sitting in a back log, there's no justification for a charge to be made.

    That said, my experience with Raven Concealment to date has been stellar. I had a set of options not available on the website and they will make it work for me.

  16. #15
    Member Array NIS350ZTT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by giaodn View Post
    If the order is just sitting in a back log, there's no justification for a charge to be made.
    True, however if it were me I wouldn't start on the item until paid (possibly depending on how commonly the item sells).

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